Posts by john.prestor

-Luke 1:1-4 suggests that historical methods of some kind were used, yet the narrative of Luke is hardly different than Matthew or Mark, suggesting the author is just repeating what he or she learned. I would point you to Alfred Loisy's Origins of the New Testament for a detailed look at these prologues and how they've been tampered with (http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/loisy2/chapter6.html).

-Josephus did not write about Jesus, a later Christian copying his work added in a section about Jesus. The section about Jesus breaks the context and sounds like a Christian and not a Jew. The other sources you've mentioned are 2nd century sources who may only be responding to or repeating Christian claims. They are not necessarily independent sources, and even if they were, they're too late to have witnessed the supposed crucifixion.

-Your following questions ("What would...") are just you repeating or paraphrasing what the Bible says. I'll show you what I mean:
How could this new belief (about Jesus Resurrection) take hold right in the city where everyone saw Jesus die? It was to Pilates' and the Pharisee's' advantage to produce a body to stamp out this hysteria surrounding Jesus. But none was ever found.

What you mean is this: But The Gospel of Matthew says Jesus' body was not in the tomb, and says everyone watched him die, and says...

Yeah I know it does, I don't believe The Gospel of Matthew. There's no good evidence for the tomb itself in the 1st century CE, much less that tomb having something to do with Jesus' claims. Prove to me that a body was deposited in a specific tomb in Jerusalem in 33CE and then was found missing, and don't use the Bible. Good luck.

48

An Expert Explains the Beginning of Christianity with Dr Richard Carrier

by Rocketman123 in

here is an interesting discussion about how christianity probably began.

hierarchical political interest may have been involved.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=civ8gscbo_g.

john.prestor

Says Habermas: "By normal historical methods, the tomb was empty." (~7:50)

What methods would those be? We don't even have the tomb.

48

An Expert Explains the Beginning of Christianity with Dr Richard Carrier

by Rocketman123 in

here is an interesting discussion about how christianity probably began.

hierarchical political interest may have been involved.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=civ8gscbo_g.

john.prestor

I did not. I'll listen to part of it today; it's an hour and a half to be fair, you're kind of asking a lot. I doubt it's anything I haven't heard before because, again, it comes down to what the Bible says: that Jesus died, was buried, the tomb was empty, the disciples preached about it... You can't get this information from any secular, non-Biblical source.

48

An Expert Explains the Beginning of Christianity with Dr Richard Carrier

by Rocketman123 in

here is an interesting discussion about how christianity probably began.

hierarchical political interest may have been involved.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=civ8gscbo_g.

john.prestor

Your 12 claims are just "The Bible is true." That's what they come down to, they're a summary of what the Bible claims happened in texts like Matthew, Acts, etc.

i might, might, give you 1 of 12. Might. That would be that a guy named Jesus was crucified in the 1st century CE. But even that is up for debate.

48

An Expert Explains the Beginning of Christianity with Dr Richard Carrier

by Rocketman123 in

here is an interesting discussion about how christianity probably began.

hierarchical political interest may have been involved.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=civ8gscbo_g.

john.prestor

I would argue the talk of 500 witnesses is a late interpolation in 1 Corinthians. Someone wrote that into the earlier letter when they were copying it.

Regardless, I've never found another text which speaks of Jesus appearing to 500 people at once.

48

An Expert Explains the Beginning of Christianity with Dr Richard Carrier

by Rocketman123 in

here is an interesting discussion about how christianity probably began.

hierarchical political interest may have been involved.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=civ8gscbo_g.

john.prestor

The 500 witnesses is apparently from The Acts of Philip. Jesus makes an appearance in Athens to 500 Jews who convert on the spot.

5

Police raid a Kingdom Hall in Norway and question elders

by cachito in

police raid a kingdom hall in norway of jehovah's witnesses and question elders.jehovah's witnesses want to cooperate with the police and explain why they have an arc of alleged crimes.

they claim that their elders are priests and must maintain confidentiality ... however ... the watchtower headquarters does not ask elders to refer to themselves as priests, that would be a disfellowshipping offense.

and they do not ask their elders to maintain confidentiality ... they must give the information to high ranking officials within the watchtower hierarchy.

john.prestor

It's funny how they throw the priest hat on whenever they need to wear it. Priests my ass. I mean... they act and are priests in practice, but then they refuse to use that title until the police come knocking.

17

Why a 1914 Return Date is Impossible

by Sea Breeze in

revelation 20:2-3. and he [jesus] laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the devil, and satan, and bound him a thousand years,.

and cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.. we see that the millennial reign begins with satan being bound.

he will be bound for 1000 years.

john.prestor

Around every corner and every Smurf doll, love it :P

48

An Expert Explains the Beginning of Christianity with Dr Richard Carrier

by Rocketman123 in

here is an interesting discussion about how christianity probably began.

hierarchical political interest may have been involved.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=civ8gscbo_g.

john.prestor

Sea Breeze, you lost me at the empty tomb. There was no tomb and it wouldn't matter if it was empty anyway. An empty tomb would prove an empty tomb. What you really have are texts: you have claims that there was a tomb and the tomb was empty, claims made in Greek some 40+ years later (at least). Your argument comes down to Believe the Bible. But I don't believe the Bible, I'm an atheist.

Food for thought.