I would think if this were true and known, Ray Franz would have mentioned it in one of his books since he knew both men well. I don't recall reading anything about that.
Of course, he may not have felt compelled to mention it.
zophar
JoinedPosts by zophar
-
30
Pedophile on The Governing Body
by new boy inthe bottom line there is zero tolerance for any homosexual activity in jehovah’s holy organization.
so all known gays had been kicked out and disfellowshipped before i got to bethel and gays got kicked and disfellowshipped and disgraced when i was there.
sorry, i guess i meant most homosexuals were kicked out in disgrace.
-
-
-
15
When JWs Pray for Houston
by NJ501 inwhen i hear prayers given by brothers why do they only pray for other jws not all people??
i remember hearing a comment from my mother saying 4000 jws are affected by this...and i'm thinking yes that is sad but what about the tens of thousands other people affected?
too me it just doesn't seem right to just pray for jws but to pray for all victims.
-
-
zophar
During a disaster several yrs ago I prayed and said something to this effect:
"Jehovah, while we are concerned for our Brothers we are really concerned for ALL the people affected."
Received several comments after that prayer. Words like that had never been spoken in that building before!
-
34
The org tightens the noose on J.W.'s thinking.
by The Fall Guy inthe manipulative use of language by the org in the upcoming circuit assembly talks is as good - or better - than any advertising conglomerate could devise.
the mind-shaping wording is clearly used in order to deter critical thinking by the sheep.. face bad reports as jesus did (9 min.
note to the speaker: explain why spiritually mature people do not become ashamed of the good news or dismayed when faced with negative propaganda.
-
-
zophar
Thank you Darkspilver
-
24
Do WT Publications Make Us Feel Unworthy, Unlovable and Helpless?
by jp1692 init is my contention that the wtbts, (as do all high-control, authoritarian cults), deliberately cultivates dysfunctional beliefs among its members.
in particular, the most destructive of these beliefs are those that undermine one's feelings of self-worth.
for a research project i am doing, i am looking for direct quotes from wt publications that seem to be specifically designed to manipulate the readers into feeling: unworthy, unlovable, inadequate and/or helpless.
-
-
zophar
w08 6/15 p29 Through faith in “one act of justification,” both anointed Christians and members of the “great crowd” of “other sheep” can be “declared righteous”—the former for life in heaven as joint heirs with Christ and the latter as God’s friends, with a view to surviving “the great tribulation.”
It is interesting the difference in Anointed and Other Sheep. Anointed have it, that is declared righteous and they even get "raptured" (although they refuse to use that word) Measly other sheep sort of get it a little bit but not quite. Now they WILL get that declaration, they just have to endure now, endure through GT endure 1000 yrs, endure final test ......whew, that tired me out just typing it! But don't worry they WILL get that righteousness....Unless there is new light! 😎
-
29
why does no one ask questions ?
by midnight ini always felt bad for asking questions , did anyone else ?
what question did you ask or want to ask but feel it was wrong ?
mine was regarding the circuit assembly and the amount defecit anounced .. also 1975 i got a stern reply too when i was studying in the 90,s.
-
-
zophar
I wanted the cult to be true, and all their deeply unsatisfying answers to what should have been simple questions that everyone had thought about only left me with stronger doubts and I didn't want that
I mirror your excellent point One Eyed Joe! I think the questions, doubts and the HOPE that this has to be "The Truth" while causing a lot of cognitive dissonance, eventually caused me to see things more realistically and less gullibly.
The 2017 Convention video clip regarding 1975 has had a huge or for you Trumpian's UGE, effect on me. It seems a deliberate misrepresentation by the GB, who lived through that period as young men. To NOW represent those who gave up earthly belongings as the ones totally at fault is just so disingenuous.
-
162
2017 Convention Video To Be Shown Regarding The 1975 Failure
by pale.emperor inhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=go3arnnsfkk&feature=youtu.be.
no mention whatsoever that it was watchtower themselves that strongly hinted towards this date.
instead they blame those who "put their trust in a date, not jehovah".. let's recap... .
-
-
zophar
*** w68 8/15 pp. 500-501 par. 35 Why Are You Looking Forward to 1975? ***
35 One thing is absolutely certain, Bible chronology reinforced with fulfilled Bible prophecy shows that six thousand years of man’s existence will soon be up, yes, within this generation! (Matt. 24:34) This is, therefore, no time to be indifferent and complacent. This is not the time to be toying with the words of Jesus that “concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father.” (Matt. 24:36) To the contrary, it is a time when one should be keenly aware that the end of this system of things is rapidly coming to its violent end. Make no mistake, it is sufficient that the Father himself knows both the “day and hour”!
*** w80 3/15 pp. 17-18 pars. 5-6 Choosing the Best Way of Life ***
In modern times such eagerness, commendable in itself, has led to attempts at setting dates for the desired liberation from the suffering and troubles that are the lot of persons throughout the earth. With the appearance of the book Life Everlasting—in Freedom of the Sons of God, and its comments as to how appropriate it would be for the millennial reign of Christ to parallel the seventh millennium of man’s existence, considerable expectation was aroused regarding the year 1975. There were statements made then, and thereafter, stressing that this was only a possibility. Unfortunately, however, along with such cautionary information, there were other statements published that implied that such realization of hopes by that year was more of a probability than a mere possibility. It is to be regretted that these latter statements apparently overshadowed the cautionary ones and contributed to a buildup of the expectation already initiated.
6 In its issue of July 15, 1976, The Watchtower, commenting on the inadvisability of setting our sights on a certain date, stated: “If anyone has been disappointed through not following this line of thought, he should now concentrate on adjusting his viewpoint, seeing that it was not the word of God that failed or deceived him and brought disappointment, but that his own understanding was based on wrong premises.” In saying “anyone,” The Watchtower included all disappointed ones of Jehovah’s Witnesses, hence including persons having to do with the publication of the information that contributed to the buildup of hopes centered on that date.
*** yb88 pp. 189-190 Korea ***
A CAUSE FOR CONCERN
All seemed well in the spring of 1975. The Bethel family moved into their spacious new facilities, and Brother Lloyd Barry visited from Japan to give the dedication talk. The 1975 service year ended with an outstanding field report—including 8,120 baptized that year. Thus, in just three years’ time 19,600 were baptized. Well over half of the Korean Witnesses had been in the truth for less than three years.
However, the first few months of the 1976 service year began with a marked decrease in publishers and home Bible studies. This downward trend was to continue for over three years, bottoming out in a 26-percent decrease in publishers, from 32,693 in August 1975 to 24,285 in November 1978. Memorial attendance dropped too, from over 68,000 in 1975 to 49,545 in 1978. The brothers at the branch were perplexed. Would the trend be reversed?
Of course, neither they nor the Society were just letting it slide by. The Society’s letter of April 4, 1977, stated:
“We hope the brothers are careful in their teaching. Evidently some were very strong on the 1975 date, and so a good foundation was not laid. The foundation, of course, should be faith in Christ Jesus and the ransom sacrifice, and the dedication should be with understanding.”
A very candid observation indeed! Too much emphasis was placed on a date by some Bible teachers. Many newly baptized ones took up the truth on a wave of emotion. Even some elders had their hopes pinned to 1975. In addition, materialism seeped into the land as a result of the rapid economic growth in Korea, and nationalism was on the rise. The effect: apathy among the brothers.
*** jv chap. 28 pp. 632-633 Testing and Sifting From Within ***
Later on, during the years from 1935 through 1944, a review of the overall framework of Bible chronology revealed that a poor translation of Acts 13:19, 20 in the King James Version, along with certain other factors, had thrown off the chronology by over a century. This later led to the idea—sometimes stated as a possibility, sometimes more firmly—that since the seventh millennium of human history would begin in 1975, events associated with the beginning of Christ’s Millennial Reign might start to take place then.
Did the beliefs of Jehovah’s Witnesses on these matters prove to be correct? They certainly did not err in believing that God would without fail do what he had promised. But some of their time calculations and the expectations that they associated with these gave rise to serious disappointments.
Following 1925, meeting attendance dropped dramatically in some congregations in France and Switzerland. Again, in 1975, there was disappointment when expectations regarding the start of the Millennium failed to materialize. As a result, some withdrew from the organization. Others, because they sought to subvert the faith of associates, were disfellowshipped. No doubt, disappointment over the date was a factor, but in some instances the roots went deeper. Some individuals also argued against the need to participate in the house-to-house ministry. Certain ones did not simply choose to go their own way; they became aggressive in opposing the organization with which they had been associated, and they made use of the public press and television to air their views. Nevertheless, the number who defected was relatively small.
-
34
Did you have a favorite pub . . .
by compound complex inpublication, that is?.
i just found all scripture is inspired of god and beneficial in storage.
i enjoyed studying it, as well as make sure of all things, hold fast to what is fine.. our thinking has changed, of course, but, back then, did you have a wt publication you especially liked?.
-
-
zophar
The Greatest Man Who Ever Lived
-
29
I Smell Fear...
by pale.emperor inmsoneone of fb sent me this.
looks like they know they're being exposed as the frauds they are.
this plus the theme of the next convention "don't give up" just reeks of desperation.. stash: /intesoft-inc.appspot.com/post/b21fe47ca2644a0ea2f6e28fe6401145.html
-
-
zophar
"What is propaganda? In this context, it is the use of biased or misleading information to manipulate the way people think and act. Some equate propaganda with “lies, distortion, deceit, manipulation, mind control, [and] psychological warfare” and associate it with “unethical, harmful, and unfair tactics.”—Propaganda and Persuasion." 7-15-17 WT
The "unfair tactics" that "Apostates" use are often merely quoting what the "Channel" has published.
The apostle Paul was spearheading the Christian missionary activity. He was also laying a foundation for a work that would be completed in our twentieth century. (w1989 1/1 12)
At least that is what the original copy of the magazine said. Then in the bound volume we read:
The apostle Paul was spearheading the Christian missionary activity. He was also laying a foundation for a work that would be completed in our day.
So which one do I trust? No admission or acknowledgement of the change, just magically changed. Did they hope no one noticed?
That is not propaganda but just another example of the audaciousness of their supposed authority. One need not listen to propaganda, just listen to them! Over time there words will show their falsehood.
Mt 12:37 for by your words you will be declared righteous, and by your words you will be condemned.”
-
41
Observations From an Ex-Elder Part 3 - Searching for the Lost Sheep
by doubtfull1799 in"what man among you with 100 sheep, on losing one of them, will not leave the 99 behind in the wilderness and go after the lost one until he finds it?
" - luke 15:4. disclaimer: by posting the following observations i am not complaining.
i am happy to be left alone.
-
-
zophar
How many men serving as elders currently are struggling with their own cognitive dissonance? Your fellow elders may have some of the same thoughts you have about the organization, or at least may be struggling with doubts and questions. Therefore they don't shepherd because they have nothing to offer. Of course, many of the other reasons listed in this thread may be correct as well.
It is my experience that there are many, many JW's that have a lot of questions but don't share their thoughts yet. As time progresses and things like Australian RC is exposed and the org continues the hard line on shunning children and producing "Bunker" videos, people will gradually wake up. Most people don't like to be confrontational so they will quietly fade. It is a long process for some of us, mine has gone on for the last ten years!
Be content and happy. .....and I agree with others. Why DA yourself, it's just another way of recognizing their authority over your life.
-
27
Talked to a JW at a literature stand today
by nevermind inguys,.
i need your help in trying to wrap my head around this strange experience i had today talking with a jw lady sitting at a literature table in a busy outdoor shopping center.. i'm a very shy person, but i always wanted to ask these jws at their literature stands questions to start them thinking about the validity of watchtower teaching.
i finally mustered my strength today to talk to this jw lady.
-
-
zophar
1914 failed prophecy didn't happen. All Russel did was just say something significant happened
It might have been interesting to see what she would say if you asked her: "if you read in your own literature that Russell did predict the end of the world in 1914, would his wrong prediction or false prophecy cause you to re-think your position?"