TonusOH

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Posts by TonusOH

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  16

  Our First Christmas Tree

  by Queequeg in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  early on, after we left jw land, my wife said to me, “i hope you don’t care, but i don’t ever see myself doing any christmas stuff.

  i don’t really understand why some ex jws decide to do that crap.” we agreed that parties were a little different because of the social aspects, but other wise i didn’t care.

  now… there’s a 16’ douglas fir with ornaments and lights in our living room.

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  TonusOH

  I love the story!

  But... a sixteen foot tree! Is it laying on its side?
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  11530

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

  by Newly Enlightened in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  original reddit post (removed).

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  TonusOH

  The case was overturned on appeal. As was pointed out, in many places you do not have an expectation of privacy when you are out in public. "Hidden camera" pranks, interviews and investigative reports are not uncommon in the USA and are rarely challenged in court because the law is on the side of the person filming in most of these cases. It's a fine line, a lot of these cases help to unmask some terrible people and behavior, but the flip side is the unnecessary and cruel humiliation of unsuspecting innocent people when a single moment defines their public persona.

  If Evans does the interviews to demonstrate the approach that JWs are taught in regards to trying to reach people, or if it shows how sheltered their views and knowledge are, that can be very useful. If he's selecting clips to dishonestly promote a narrative, that can be destructive and dangerous, and is almost always unethical and wrong. I can't tell which it is, since I don't watch any of his videos anymore.
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  11530

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

  by Newly Enlightened in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  original reddit post (removed).

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  TonusOH

  I agree, pr0ner.

  As for the canceled Zoom calls, I don't think he is concerned that someone will confront him in such a small and cozy environment. He could deflect any questions and then claim that he is being harassed and end the call quickly. He knows that someone could sign up, then record the call, so he would not be inclined to humor anyone trying to ask uncomfortable questions. Or at least, he should know this. It's also possible that he would try to shout such a person down or humiliate them, not realizing that others on the call will be reaching for the 'unsubscribe' option as a result.

  I agree with the belief that he might be feeling unmotivated to join meetings with only one or a few people. It's a step down, and a real blow to his ego. He was working his way up to filling ballrooms or possibly even theatres. Now it's low-turnout Zoom calls and trips to the karaoke bar. Not quite the life he thought he'd be living at this point.
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  18

  Do the old boys on the GB actually report their field service hours?

  by eyeslice in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  this came to mind as my 71 year old wife got up at 6:30 to drive 1.1/4 hours to meet the field ministry group.

  we live a long way from the kingdom hall and the traffic is horrendous where we live!.

  somehow, i doubt the good old boys do much themselves.

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  TonusOH

  Didn't they let Rutherford off the hook back when he was the president of the WTS? He was demanding onerous preaching schedules while not spending a minute in field service himself, and the explanation was that he was too busy organizing the effort and giving speeches. He did make that phonograph recording that JWs played for people when they were in field service. Maybe he counted that, and ended up preaching two million hours a month or something.

  What they don't seem to remember is that Jesus (ie, someone slightly higher on the totem pole than them) preached constantly and to whoever would listen. The GB? Too busy making videos and waiting while the unpaid labor cleans their rooms, cooks their meals, and shines their shoes. Why, the resemblance to the holy men of the past is unmistakable!
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  50

  1969 Awake on Education - A Sore Spot for Me

  by NotBlind in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my father would have started college 49 years ago this week.

  about three months earlier, the week he graduated high school, the awake!

  magazine came out with some very clear direction to teenagers.

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  TonusOH

  If you are a young person, you also need to face the fact that you will never grow old in this present system of things. Why not? Because all the evidence in fulfillment of Bible prophecy indicates that this corrupt system is due to end in a few years.

  This, to me, is such an important passage. JWs are taught to explain that there were no definitive statements made about 1975. And a JW who reads the above will immediately point to the second part and claim that they were just trying to interpret the evidence and were not making a definitive statement.

  But that isn't what the first sentence says. It says to a young person, you NEED to face THE FACT that you will NEVER GROW OLD in this system of things. There is no equivocation there. None. "Oh, but the GB actually said--" NO! What they said was that it was a FACT that you NEEDED to face- you would NEVER grow old. If you still object, I would ask you to check a dictionary for the definition of words like NEED, FACT, and NEVER.

  I got very lucky, that an opportunity for a career dropped in my lap when I was in my mid-20s and I took full advantage because it did not seem as if it would interfere with the meetings and JW obligations. And by the time it really got rolling, I was already starting to fade and could dive in without worry. But I was also not lucky, in that I had passed up a chance at a career I wanted just as badly, because I knew it would 'cause conflict' with my life as a JW. It still haunts me, though not as bad as it would if I was still a mail clerk today.

  And all that time, I did not know that they had predicted the above when I was not quite a year old. And I'm in my mid-50s now. If you feel that this does not qualify as GROWING OLD in the present system of things, I would say that you might be splitting hairs. To say nothing of people in their teens and twenties at the time, who are in their 60s and 70s now. The WTS lied to us. A LOT. Wake up.
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  89

  Myth of 1914

  by peacefulpete in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the wt engages in history revisionism when insisting the world changed overnight in 1914. in fact the european power struggles that came to a head were centuries old.

  millions of lives had been lost in the wars of the 19th century, with the world a powder keg the years prior to the assassination of franz ferdinand in june 1914 which is often said, albeit rather arbitrarily, as the start of the war that escalated over the next 4 years into the great war.

  take a look at these two pages and ask if the wt's interpretation of history seems accurate to you.

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  TonusOH

  I think the issue is not the 1914 date by itself, but the way they tied it to expectations for so long through their explanation of the 'generations.' The idea, for a long time, was that there was a growing urgency as we got farther from that year, because there was a clear limit to the amount of time left. That helped with recruiting and with keeping the rank and file in line, because people will hedge their bets-- if the end is that close, why not stay in a bit longer to be sure?

  They've modified the explanation, but they really should have just said 'look, we have new light and it says that 1914 is correct but the generation teaching doesn't apply to the modern age. So we know the end is near, but we cannot say how near.' That kind of kills the sense of urgency you get from having a specific number or numbers, but their approach (overlapping generations) is likely to turn away more people than just admitting that they were... mistaken.

  Sometimes you must take the honest approach and hope for the best. Because if you keep peddling dishonest teachings that get more and more convoluted and unconvincing, you are still killing off your religion, but in a way that people will never forget and use as a cautionary tale.
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  39

  why celebrate xmas?

  by enoughisenough in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  many on here are ex jw....they have left the jws because of coming to find out the many false indoctrinations.

  one of the things learned as a jw is that there isn't anything true about xmas being the birth of jesus.

  ( matt chapter 2 tells a whole different narrative about the baby jesus than what is portrayed by the christian churches) they learn the ways that are celebrated are pagan practices jesus told the samaritan woman that god wanted to be worshipped in spirit and it truth.

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  TonusOH

  I think the example about motivation is being misunderstood, or perhaps isn't clear enough. The distinction is being made between killing an innocent person who poses no threat (murder) and killing a person who is actively threatening the life of another.

  Now, in the latter example, it's very possible that the person who kills the other person(s) will be arrested and charged, as it is not a case of self-defense. But at trial, it's very likely that this person's explanation would see them exonerated, or at worst being convicted of a lesser charge. After all, the intent was to save a life, not necessarily take one.

  But also... don't bring a baseball bat to a swordfight.
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  23

  freedom of speech and loss of rights

  by enoughisenough in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i was thinking about freedom of speech after watching a clip about the jw suing kevin mcfree.

  they wanted to take away his freedom of speech.

  but in thinking about it, that is the way of the organization, save they want to control thought as well.

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  TonusOH

  The WTS is in favor of free speech and protected rights for itself, not for anyone who is not on their side. In the same way that they will say that it is important to be critical and question authority when they are encouraging people to leave other religions, but tell their members that they must accept the GB's teachings uncritically and never question them. Since they feel that they have God on their side, and Satan is on everyone else's side, they do not feel that they need to see things in a fair or balanced perspective.
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  21

  Keep telling yourself that!

  by Lost in the fog in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in the latest copy of the elders textbook someone kindly made available to us on this website, i see that "independently organized meetings for spiritual feeding" are still not allowed.

  no wonder because independent research would let the scales fall from the eyes.. the gb still insisting that they are guided by the (always lower case) holy spirit and the bible!!

  not that the rank and file members need the bible or holy spirit themselves because they are fed through meetings, conventions, assemblies, jw broadcasting and the publications.

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  TonusOH

  They do not hide their intent: you can only learn the truth through the information provided by the GB. You cannot learn it on your own, and it is even considered dangerous for you to study the Bible without the guidance of the GB.

  I wonder how much the videos from the GB are hurting their efforts. The individual members tend to look either crazy, stupid, or too bored to care. How many JWs are unable to shake that nagging sense in the back of their minds, telling them that these clowns cannot possibly be selected by God as the only path to enlightenment and salvation.
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  11530

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

  by Newly Enlightened in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  original reddit post (removed).

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  TonusOH

  Vintage: Here's the part of Lloyd's post that struck me as being "off". Bear with me. He says...
  "Thank you for your support! I couldn't have made this year happen without you."

  I have to say, he almost had a moment of self-awareness. He did indeed 'make the year happen.' But it had nothing to do with his supporters and everything to do with his lack of self control.

  As for the "April 2008" link, those messages were shared in this topic before, and that site shows an upload date of February 2022. The messages I've seen have been pictures which do not seem to have any useful metadata, so there is no way to verify if they are legitimate or just something someone created to make him look bad. I'd suggest anyone who wants to read them should, at the least, sit down first. It's very twisted and sickening. If it's real, arrest and prosecution is the least he should face. If it's not real, it's a truly horrible thing to do to anyone.