Posts by TonusOH

58

Did the ransom sacrifice even work?

by Sharpie in

shower thought entered my mind the other day... jesus christ.

as per doctrine.

is still alive in heaven right now correct?

TonusOH

The idea of dispelling guilt by killing an animal is garish enough. Doing so by killing a person is the sort of thing we might expect from primitive people striving to survive in harsh environments.

In any case, the understanding is that Jesus sacrificed a human life. His human persona did not sin, and since the wages of sin is death, he paid a penalty for a crime he did not commit. So the value of that life is applied to those who have committed the crime (sin, in all of its forms), and it is available in perpetuity. Since he is God (or God's son, depending on your beliefs), that sacrifice is not limited to a one-time or one-person use.

If it doesn't make sense... I didn't come up with it. A human society that now had the time to wrestle with much more complex concepts of life/death and good/evil took a few shots at it, and some of their efforts made it into the Bible. It's still barbaric, but we must remember that these were people who fed one another to wild beasts as a form of entertainment meant to keep the masses pacified.

8

Was Satan in Heaven while Christ was crucified?

by Sharpie in

just a shower thought came to mind.. while jesus was nailed to the stake/cross (take your pick) because of the witnesses lack of belief in hell.

does that mean according to witness doctrine that satan and his demons were in heaven while jesus was being executed?.

what about after jesus went to heaven?

TonusOH

I think punk brings up a good point- what is the nature/structure of Heaven supposed to be? The book of Job implies that the Devil had the freedom to move about on both Earth and Heaven, and that God not only tolerated his presence, but was willing to engage in discussion with him. How does a spirit being enter/exit Heaven? What would it have been like for them to still be present there, when they were tainted by their rejection of God's authority?

This is the issue with many of these concepts. They're not fleshed out. The list of questions is endless. And so are the answers, because we're not wired to just accept the lack of detail. We have questions, and we need answers, and if the answers aren't forthcoming, we'll just make up our own. And, bam! You have a mythos.

169

Are the statistics out yet?

by slimboyfat in

isn’t it about time they released the report for the service year?

or have they stopped publishing it?

did they released selected figures at the annual meeting as they usually do, such as the memorial attendance or record number of pioneers?

TonusOH

Memorial partakers up.

That makes sense. After seeing those numbers, I bet a lot of JWs need a drink.

18

A problem, a provision, a promise

by JW Answers in

short message of help showing forth the correct gospel for today.. the problem with mankind, the provision for mankind, and a promise to mankind.. jws teach that works save.

the bible says that only christ saves if we believe / trust upon him..

TonusOH

On the other hand, if we're more likely to be wrong no matter what we choose, then we may as well live it up before we get escorted to our eternal brimstone bedchambers.

42

Have you ever been on a congregation picnic?

by LostintheFog1999 in

were you ever on a congregation picnic?

i was on several occasions.. the arrangements were often announced from the platform after the closing song and prayer by the last elder up on the platform.. sometimes it was included in the service meeting announcements as "on saturday we're meeting at 10.00am at the kingdom hall for field service, and after field service for anyone who wishes, especially for the younger ones, we will be having a congregation picnic meeting at the beach carpark on seaview road.".

well, according to the new elders manual you won't be hearing those words again.

TonusOH

The worst issue we ever had was that one guy whose life apparently revolved around winning sandlot softball games, so he would turn every close play into a major argument.

Aside from that, I don't remember anything major happening, though I did hear about one elder (who had been a boxer in his youth) who clobbered a worldly guy who made a rude comment about his daughter.

15

bringing up the 1954 Walsh Trial

by enoughisenough in

i went back into this forum a little ways and found quite a bit of discussion on the walsh (1954) for those newly out or those who don't know of what i write, you should really check it out.

anyone who is a jw or studying with jw should see material from this trial.

my take away...the printed materials of the wtbts were to believed over the bible and if you didn't believe the wt teachings over the bible, ( even though they admit to false prophesy )you would be disfellowshipped and deserving of death.

TonusOH

Ray Franz had shown some of the Walsh trial transcripts in CoC. It was fascinating to see how easily the attorney got them to admit that the most important thing was that the rank and file accept what they were told, regardless of whether or not they believed it, and regardless of whether or not it was right.

I think what struck me the most was realizing just how they had been lying to us all those years. It is one thing for them to tell you who they are when in an environment that they control and where you cannot question them without suffering a severe penalty. But when they were in court and not allowed to tell blatant lies, they told a very different story. They know that they are lying to you. They think they have to.

The GB are the original Twitter- they thrive on followers, not on honesty or truth.

19

Weight Loss and Insulin Control

by cofty in

ask most fitness coaches, nutritionists or health professionals and they will tell you that weight control is about calories in versus calories out (cico).

after all, you can’t ignore the laws of thermodynamics!.

the flaw in this simplistic reasoning ought to be obvious; a human body and a steam engine are two different things.. our bodies have evolved complex systems of control and feedback loops in order to maintain a steady interior environment, also known as homeostasis.

TonusOH

The push towards more grains and carbs in the 70s, along with the war on cholesterol, helped usher in the age of type-2 diabetes. The continued demonization of meats and fats don't help, either.

As for energy-in/energy-out, I agree that it's too simple a model. I think we should be looking at what works for us and what doesn't. People lose weight and build healthy bodies on a seemingly endless array of diets and dietary approaches. So it seems as if they all work. I would say, find the commonalities, and also find what works for you. A diet that you cannot follow won't work, obviously.

Most dietary approaches will warn against processed foods and especially against foods with lots of sugar or starch. I think that's a good start. I've found that for me, it's not only sugar, but chocolate (specifically, milk-chocolate) that appears to have additional negative effects for me. So I've been cutting that out lately and my skin has been in much better shape than it has in some time.

Our bodies can adapt to a lot of approaches, but I think we each have our own specific needs. I am focused less on calories and more on finding ways to eat that work for me and in developing regular exercise habits. Try lots of stuff. Keep what works, discard what doesn't. Above all, don't punish yourself- your brain won't put up with that for long, and it's one reason that so many approaches fail.

41

Pioneer Hours Update

by Bartolomeo in

regular pioneers: 600 per year, 50 on average per month.auxiliary pioneers: 30 hours per monthauxiliary pioneers in march and april: fee reduced to 15 hours.

TonusOH

ThomasMore: 2. Competive hierarchy that keeps the rank & file engaged

I think this is a big part of it, and I think they are also reaching a breaking point. The requirement that everyone go door-to-door and the encouragement for some to do X hours each month must be dragging the growth to enough of a degree that they keep finding ways to make the preaching work less onerous. But it's one of the ways to keep people busy and building up enough of a time investment so that they see it as a sunk cost.

So, if you weaken the requirements too much, the rank and file might lose enough focus to start wondering why they are doing it at all. But if you keep the reins tight, some will wear down or resist. It's a tricky balance, and I'm not sure there is a level where it works without some fallout. Or, they will keep pushing things to one end or the other, thus losing people faster each time. One can only hope.

37

Serena Williams allegedly baptized this weekend

by neat blue dog in

.

not sure if this is fake news or not..

TonusOH

That's what I was thinking. What if she decides that she doesn't want to live the JW life, after so many years enjoying everything the world had to offer (and that she would have not been allowed to sample)? How bad would the PR be if she was DF?

I'm not moved, one way or another, by her decision. She's not the first famous person to either join the JWs or get baptized after years on the fence. I'm more intrigued by how things might go if a sufficiently famous person were to have a falling out with the organization. Or if she gets interviewed and caught by surprise by questions about CSA mishandling by the WTS...

41

Pioneer Hours Update

by Bartolomeo in

regular pioneers: 600 per year, 50 on average per month.auxiliary pioneers: 30 hours per monthauxiliary pioneers in march and april: fee reduced to 15 hours.

TonusOH

I can't believe that I counted my hours so earnestly for so long. I could've been a star!