Posts by TonusOH

23

Where is Jehovah

by JohnTron7 in

during the massacre of many witnesses at a kingdom hall in germany the other night, where was jehovah's holy spirit ?

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As I recall, in moments like this the organization would say that unexpected circumstance can overtake us at any time, based on a Bible verse from Paul. I can recall them saying it after a particuarly horrific incident (in Japan, I think it was) where an angry husband set a fire at the entrance of a KH which did not have another exit. 87 people died that night. I often wondered about that. Ever single meeting where we had a prayer, we prayed that Jehovah would watch over our brothers around the world and protect them. Those prayers were not always heard.

85

Physically in mentally agnostic ie sitting on the fence

by ExBethelitenowPIMA in

hi everyone i’m not pimi or pimo i’m pima.. i don’t think the gb have everything right but i’m sitting on the fence that maybe they do some things.. if the great trib starts i will jump that side of the fence.. this is a definite little sneaky advantage dodging but even by their own doctrine last min some could come in.. i suspect many are like me.. i spent years in bethel and am very disappointed and disillusioned by it all.. but at the end of the day i love the bible and think it is the word of god and i don’t see any other religion that comes as close to what jesus describes his true followers or who are fulfilling mat 24:14..

TonusOH

If that's who this is... I'm wondering how someone can be so insistent on rock solid evidence in one thread, yet quick to accept whatever some internet quack has to say about vaccines/moon landings in other threads. A bit of a lack of consistency.

53

1975 on the back burner

by Fisherman in

“1975” still marks 6000 years from the creation of adam in wt calendar.

according to “all scriptures inspired” book, there is a gap between the creation of adam and the creation of eve and her marriage to adam.

it was at that point in time when eve was created that marked the end of the 6th creative day and the beginning of god’s rest, the 7th day as recorded in genesis.

TonusOH

According to the story, Adam lived to be 930 years old. So there's a very long gap that might exist. In other words, JWs can milk this thing for decades to come.

92

Chance or intelligent design?

by ExBethelitenowPIMA in

cofty could you answer how the single cell came about by chance?.

i know the argument for complexity in nature says natural selection over billions of years but this could not explain the complexity of the single cell the building blocks of life?.

TonusOH

but there has to be something that never had a beginning or else what was before that?

The idea that there was always something can be applied to the universe. Matter and energy could have always existed. While both options seem impossible, it strikes me as less likely that something as incalculably complex as God would always exist instead of matter and energy. If you feel that the simplest and clearest explanation is the better one, I don't see how you would prefer a God always existing versus the basic components of a universe.

And if a God can conjure up a universe out of nothing, then it is possible for something to exist from nothing, which seems to contradict your belief regarding the possibility of a universe coming into existence. In other words, either option works with or without a God. That cannot be used to disqualify one or the other.

38

“Lazarus, come out!”

by Fisherman in

many people here have expressed faith in evolution and in other theories—but in all honesty, do you have any hope whatsoever in your heart or in the back of your mind ?

truthfully..

TonusOH

Behe had his chance at the Kitzmiller v Dover trial, and did not impress.

In any case, their approach is the same one I used to rely on- assume God as the default, then find flaws in any other approach. It works well enough, especially for those who are not evolutionary biologists or physics researchers. But trying to prove God as the default, without focusing on alternatives, is pretty much impossible. Otherwise, it would've been done and those alternatives could be readily dismissed.

The best you can get, if you don't have sufficient education in those subjects, is that God is necessary- he must exist, in order to explain the universe and life. But that's as far as you can get with that approach. It explains why there are so many different religions and religious denominations- without a way to reliably research it, no one can determine who God is, only that he exists because someone had to create everything. I find that unsatisfying, if God was interested in me and wanted me to get to know Him.

23

Is there really any universal issue of Sovereignty?

by Linda14 in

i can agree that satan doesn't see god as a good ruler as stated at gen 3:1-5. he doesn't seem to see gods laws as right or good.

but whether there is an understanding/agreement between god and satan afterward to the effect that he can take the mantle of rulership to show whether his style is best is doubtful.

that conclusion is probably reached because god hasn't destroyed satan, and he is also called the ruler of the world in the bible.

TonusOH

That doesn't make sense, to me. Let's assume that Satan says that humans can run their lives just fine on their own. How does that undermine Jehovah's sovereignty? God created everything, and without him there are no humans, no Earth, no nothing. If God decides to, he could wipe it all out and start over. Any plan to change the way things work relies 100% on what God has created and what God maintains. Any attempt to follow different rules depends 100% on God playing along.

What was anyone going to prove with the time they were given? What issue needed to be settled?

23

Is there really any universal issue of Sovereignty?

by Linda14 in

i can agree that satan doesn't see god as a good ruler as stated at gen 3:1-5. he doesn't seem to see gods laws as right or good.

but whether there is an understanding/agreement between god and satan afterward to the effect that he can take the mantle of rulership to show whether his style is best is doubtful.

that conclusion is probably reached because god hasn't destroyed satan, and he is also called the ruler of the world in the bible.

TonusOH

I think Epicurus covered that.

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

I think this only works if you presume that God is 'pure good' or so good that he could not do something we might consider wicked or evil. Otherwise, God doesn't have to prevent evil. He may simply not care, or He may want to allow it. As for why, that would depend on God's personal qualities or desires or goals, or any number of factors. I think most current religions want God to be good and just, because the alternatives are unpredictable and that is very scary.

41

Made up field service experience at yesterday's Public Talk

by RULES & REGULATIONS in

remember the made up stories of witnesses in djibouti,africa where they had to walk 2 days in alligator infested waters with no shoes in the blazing sun to attend the meetings?

they made it to the meetings in these terrible conditions.. talk about made up stories!

here is a field service experience that was told at yesterday's public talk which would fall into the made up stories!.

TonusOH

I moved to rural Ohio seven or eight years ago. I have lived in a house and two apartments in different areas. I know there is at least one KH in the area, and probably two or three others. The WTS doesn't know where I live. JWs have knocked on my door a total of one time since I've lived out here.

This is not a complaint, mind you. But they do not seem very active out here. I never see the carts, I never see JWs at any doors or walking down a street (granted, I do not expect this in a mostly rural area). This is a contrast from the tightly-crowded city I lived most of my life in, where they were a common site (and where I was one of those JWs for a long time).

38

“Lazarus, come out!”

by Fisherman in

many people here have expressed faith in evolution and in other theories—but in all honesty, do you have any hope whatsoever in your heart or in the back of your mind ?

truthfully..

TonusOH

Hope? Yes. It would be nice for there to be a God that will extend my existence and give my life new meaning or purpose beyond what I would otherwise have. If there is a God, it would be good to understand why the world is as it is.

As for the back of my mind, that's trickier. We don't control our subconscious. It is unreliable and very difficult to correct wrong ideas or reactions. I am glad that I did not grow up in a religion that taught something like hellfire and eternal suffering, because that would still torment me even if I had stopped believing in it consciously. As it is, my only sadness is the idea that the ride will eventually end and I won't be able to see how things go.

As for faith in evolution, I think there is an important difference. When I was a believer, it was because I'd always been told that Jehovah existed, and was never encouraged to challenge this idea, so that was my starting point. When I finally did challenge it (unintentionally, as it happens), I found that it wasn't possible to prove God's existence. I could challenge the alternatives, but that is not the same as proving it on its own (which would have made the alternatives moot!).

Evolution, like any scientific theory, was developed using the scientific method. While not perfect, it does a good job of weeding out human failings over the long term. With more than 150 years of research and challenges and new developments and discoveries, the theory of evolution apparently has become stronger. I have faith in that process. If there are things that science has wrong about evolution, they'll figure it out in time. Same for other fields of science. We cannot eliminate the biases that cause people to get wrong answers. But the scientific approach can weed them out over time.

40

"Mankind's Search for God" book

by My Name is of No Consequence in

this book was published around 1990, but was never studied (to my knowledge).

does anyone know the reason why?.

TonusOH

Rushdie was assaulted last year while giving a speech and stabbed multiple times. His wounds were quite severe but he did survive the attack. I can see why the WTS would tread carefully when making any mention of Islam.