Posts by TonusOH

4

“This is my son the beloved. Listen to HIM,”

by Fisherman in

the apostles and early christians suffered and died resulting from listening to jesus and jesus said this would happen.. but is listening to jesus the same as direction from the gb based on interpretation of the bible, for example, in medical treatment or other directions?

a christian could expect death or injury resulting from listening to jesus but should this validate possible erroneous understanding of the bible?

we know that peter was executed because of his christianity and so was jesus by the way.

TonusOH

I think the issue is whether there is a reliable way to determine what the Bible is saying on these topics. If a person is convinced that the JW governing body (or the Pope, or any similar recognized leadership) is guided by the holy spirit, then whatever they choose as an interpretation is what god wants. But how to determine which of those (if any) is being guided by god?

There are debates going on in this forum right now about Christian teachings, and the people involved seem very smart and well-informed and also sincere about what they believe. But there is no consensus. If bright, honest, and devout people cannot come to an understanding on issues as important to them as the trinity, how can we ever determine who is being guided by god today?

11530

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened in

original reddit post (removed).

TonusOH

The problem for him is that we are talking about people who are considering supporting him with money (or who were/are doing so). He can cast aspersions and complain that they don't know what is going on, and he can dismiss requests for clarification by stating that he does not owe anyone explanations about his private life.

And some of that is either true, or a valid point. But there's a big difference between someone like me --watching from afar and offering opinions-- and someone who either is paying him money or is considering doing so. They may not know the 'whole story' but the story they can see is not a good one. He may not owe them an explanation, but his resistance to doing so can be the determining factor in whether or not they send him money.

A person with something to hide will play this game, stating that people don't have the whole story and that he is not obligated to reveal it. But this does not give people confidence that he is being honest. He may not care what I think of him. But he cannot play this game with potential patrons who are on the fence. He may not owe them an explanation. But they don't owe him their money, either.

25

Were any congregation '' special privileges'' ever taken away from you?

by RULES & REGULATIONS in

if you don't measure up to the watchtower society ''high standards''... you might lose some ''special privileges'' .

miss meetings...lose ''privileges''.

don't meet the monthly 10 hour ''field service'' ...lose ''privileges''.

TonusOH

Jan, it's an insular community that revolves around devotion to the organization and its leadership. It is drummed into your head that serving the organization is a privilege, and for most people that happens at the congregation level. And for men, the long path to becoming a ministerial servant --and eventually an elder-- often begins with small privileges like reading the paragraphs during the weekly book/magazine study, saying the opening/closing prayer, and handling microphones. These are visible signs of devotion and also a sign that you are on the right track to gaining those important positions of 'service.'

I can't describe how proud I felt to be named a ministerial servant, even though it came just before I began my long, slow fade. By the time it happened, I'd been conditioned to see it as a very high honor. And even now, so many years removed from it and from the organization, I still feel some sense of value from having been named one. That slow and constant conditioning stays with us for a long, long time.

11530

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened in

original reddit post (removed).

TonusOH

LMsA: Even if he gains 30 patrons by the end of the month, roughly an equal amount are exiting.

Yep. He is no longer building a subscriber base; he is trying to stay ahead of the downward trend. The best way to deal with such a problem is to work harder and produce better content on a strict schedule, and make sure your supporters feel as if they are getting their money's worth.

Or, you know... take a two-week vacation and then complain that you're too tired to fulfill the monthly obligations your supporters paid real money for. You know... the money that you can spend however you please. Nothing will motivate a paying customer like delivering less than you promised while spending a couple of weeks on the beach.

I'm not worried that he has a small uptick in Patreon subs so soon after the beginning of the month. He needs to work extra hard in order to stem the bleeding. But he doesn't want to work, and he resents that his paying supporters have the nerve to expect something from him. The trend will continue downward. We just need to watch and wait.

32

Do you play the LOTTERY?

by Fisherman in

jw view gambling as a sin and sadly people get addicted to gambling causing them financial and health problems.

but is playing a couple of bucks a week on some lottery tickets actually gambling?

what do you have to lose?

TonusOH

I played the lottery a few times several years ago. Since I was out, it seemed like a bit of a guilty pleasure. I don't know if it was a DF offense, but I know it was discouraged. Whether it's a sin or not, I don't know. I'm not sure there is clear Biblical guidance.

I do recall a news story many years ago, where a local (NYC) pastor's wife played the lottery and they won $250,000. The pastor was notorious for his anti-gambling and anti-lottery sermons, and so it was an embarrassing turn of events. But he did not even flinch. He called it "a gift from god." I suspect that he dropped the topic of lotteries in any future sermons, though.

5

Trish Fancher, shunning experience, HuffPost article 9/3/2023

by EasyPrompt in

trish fancher experience.... .

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/i-flew-across-the-country-for-my-mums-wedding-when-i-arrived-she-uninvited-me_uk_64f1b6cce4b0fe066b17f93b.

from article.... .

TonusOH

Based on what she wrote, you cannot help but get the impression that this is also traumatic for her mother, who feels forced to choose between god and her daughter. Would salvation grant her release from this pain? Would she really spend an eternity in paradise as a happy person, knowing that her daughter was sentenced to death by that same god?

23

How to Legally Dissolve a Religious Organization

by EasyPrompt in

regarding the state dissolving a church organization.... .

as posted in another thread, here is what is happening in japan, filing a court order to dissolve the unification church.... .

https://www.eurasiareview.com/06092023-japan-seeks-court-order-to-dissolve-unification-church/.

TonusOH

That article appears to be saying that Japan wants to dissolve that church for financial reasons. That's a bad look. You could squeeze any religion for additional funding with the threat of shutting them down?

11530

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened in

original reddit post (removed).

TonusOH

LMsA: Something REALLY made him irate

Didn't he post that rant in response to Kim calling him out (in this topic, I am pretty sure)? He quoted her challenge to him and then posted his lengthy ~~screech~~ screed.

I don't remember if she posted her comment before or after his filing. I guess that, after filing a large stack of pages explaining how "Kim committed a crime by pulling back the curtain on my charade of a life" he was easily triggered by her post. Mental health is like balancing on a razor's edge, especially for gifted musician/comedian/activists doing the lard's work.

125

Mandated Shunning is a Crime

by Lee Marsh in

mandated shunning is on the rise around the world with devastating effects on millions of people.

shunning that is mandated by organized groups to its members is a form of both physical and psychological violence against those people being shunned and cut off from their family and life-long relationships.

mandated shunning means that the shunning is ordered from the top down.

TonusOH

jhine: So , if a member of someone's family does something that warrants shunning and their family doesn't shun would there be no comeback on them ?

When I was in, they judged this depending on a few factors. If it was a close family member who was living in the same home, then they were expected to avoid spiritual topics or discussion, but otherwise could interact as normal. For those who had relationships that required some contact (business dealings, health issues, etc), they were allowed to communicate only as necessary, and also avoid spiritual discussion.

Aside from that, members were expected to avoid any interaction with disfellowshipped persons. If you were found to be talking with someone who was DF, you probably got a 'reminder' the first time, with the understanding made clear that continuing on this course of action could lead to you being DF as well.

If it seems odd that they specifically forbid spiritual discussion, remember that they expect such guidance to come from the GB and through the elders and ministerial servants. I don't think the WTS trusts the rank-and-file to handle such matters.

125

Mandated Shunning is a Crime

by Lee Marsh in

mandated shunning is on the rise around the world with devastating effects on millions of people.

shunning that is mandated by organized groups to its members is a form of both physical and psychological violence against those people being shunned and cut off from their family and life-long relationships.

mandated shunning means that the shunning is ordered from the top down.

TonusOH

I agree with Vid- reduce/withhold subsidies or tax breaks for any group that enforces a shunning policy.

As for 'shunning is a crime,' I don't think it's possible to make it a crime on an individual level. Perhaps you could make it a crime for it to be an official/documented organizational policy, and require organizations or businesses to remove/amend such policies or rules. But individuals shun one another all the time, for any number of reasons. It would be impossible to legislate.