TonusOH

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Posts by TonusOH

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  26

  New Study: Mars Once Was Completely Covered in Oceans

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  "the new study indicates that the oceans that covered the entire planet in water were at least 300 metres deep.

  they may have been up to one kilometre deep.".

  yet, some secularists say they are sure that the earth was never completely flooded with water above the tops of mountains as described in genesis.

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  TonusOH

  Scientists can only work with what they find. The article you link explains that they can make those inferences because the geology of Mars allows them to see a more reliable history in its rocks, whereas the tectonic acitivty on Earth has "erased all evidence of what happened in the first 500 million years of our planet's history." Thus, they can't do more than speculate about whether there was ever that much water on Earth in the past.

  Also, it's pretty awesome that there's a Professor Martin Bizzarro out there. That's a Bond villain in the making if there ever was one.
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  41

  Jesus never existed!!

  by jw_uncovered in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  buddha of india .

  he performed miracles and raised one man, el-azar-us, from the dead.

  the sun is the "light of the world.

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  TonusOH

  There's a huge difference between the idea that the Biblical character of Jesus was based on a man who really did exist, and the idea that the Biblical character of Jesus really did exist. A man named Jesus could have preached religious messages and gathered a following and become controversial and been executed for treason due to false accusations from bitter religious leaders. The additional claim that this man was also god made flesh, and that the whole thing was his plan from the start, requires far more than testimonials.

  Jesus is, after all, not the only person whom others claimed was divine. It's not a rare find; many ancient men claimed divinity and/or were granted such by others. Heck, it happens today.
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  51

  “You know how I know that they're finished out there? The carts.”

  by Athanasius in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the watchtower's many legal problems and the jws' use of carts in their preaching work, reminded me of a scene and dialog from the film patton.. in a scene where patton is viewing a battle site the morning after, he says to an aide about the nazis: “you know how i know that they're finished out there?

  in my dreams i saw the carts.

  they kept buzzing around in my head and i couldn't figure out why.

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  TonusOH

  If I was in, I would be thinking of all of the ways that I could witness to people that did not involve writing letters, knocking on doors, or standing in front of a cart. It really only leaves informal witnessing.

  On the one hand, informal witnessing can be much more effective than the tedious door-to-door or magazine-cart options. On the other hand, how long will it be before everyone avoids you because you "turn every conversation into a Bible lesson"?
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  16

  Predictions for the next decade?

  by jehovaxx in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  as it’s nearly the new year my prediction over the next decade or so will see the sense of urgency dwindle.

  then some huge huge changes.

  for example by 2034 in a decades time, they will have address the 1914 issue and will come out and say we can’t be dogmatic.

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  TonusOH

  We've mentioned the 1914 problem in a different topic. I think it will continue to be a problem because they decided to double-down on the 'generations' teaching with that silly overlapping generations explanation. They could have reported on new light that taught them that the generations explanation from Jesus did not have a present-day fulfillment.

  It would have been simple and easy to understand, and then they could gauge the reaction of the rank and file and see if they needed to receive any more new light after that. The overlapping generations teaching means that, as more and more years pass, they have to keep wrestling with it. It would have been one thing to say hey, we had the dual-prophetic fulfillment wrong. It's much harder to have to explain why you then came up with that awful explanation.

  Between that and the easing of obligations for physical attendance and door-to-door work, I can see them going either way in terms of how many people join or stay. But I have no idea if they will be able to keep enough money coming in to support operations at Ramapo.
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  3089

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

  by Simon in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

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  TonusOH

  DerekMoors: You buy it, open the box and inside is a note. "Hi folks, sorry for not giving you the item you paid money for

  Now that made me laugh out loud. So perfect.
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  3089

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

  by Simon in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

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  TonusOH

  KIMSILVIO: Don’t you know Derek, everything’s my fault

  Don't be modest, Kim. Your hate mob forced Evans off Twitter and got his company closed down. That's all you! Rumor has it that you also dyed his hair a greasy yellow shade when he wasn't paying attention and kicked him out of his parents-in-law's house and sold his car whilst his focus was elsewhere!

  Goodness, how many other things are you responsible for? You... you didn't -gasp!- tell him to take up a music and comedy career, did you? Because that's just too much!

  What else have you been up to, in your quest to destroy Evans's life???
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  21

  Retirement

  by jehovaxx in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the difference is now blatantly obvious, older ones who went against direction of the gb and planned for retirement have relatively more comfortable lives.. those who trusted and followed gb direction never got further education or training, pioneered or spent most of their lives knocking on doors for free, making just enough to get by in a part time job.. if you followed direction from the gb then you thought the end was just around the corner so no need to plan for retirement.. now these ones have indeed got old which they were given the impression they never would.

  they are a burden on others.

  the state has to pay for them in their old age.

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  TonusOH

  "This generation will see its fulfillment."

  I assume that the collected version was updated to read:

  "This [overlapping] generation will see its fulfillment."
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  19

  The "Problem" With Zoom

  by XBEHERE in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  here is the org's problem with zoom, attending this way does not fit with their "scriptural definition" of a christian gathering.

  at least not anymore, one thing my pimi wife is fine with is attending on zoom occasionally, even 2-3 times a month or so.. if some of you recall, during covid there were break out rooms setup for people to stay on and associate.

  many would also stay in the main meeting and talk over each other trying to say hello, etc.

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  TonusOH

  I would have loved to have the option for video conference meetings when I lived in the projects and we had to walk six or seven blocks to a midweek meeting in inclement weather and after the sun went down.

  Granted, that doesn't solve the issue of the lack of comraderie. But it was cold and wet and scary! I would not have felt inconvenienced at having to get dressed up for a Zoom meeting.
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  33

  Forget 2012... The world will end May 21, 2011

  by Elsewhere in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  http://articles.sfgate.com/2010-01-01/bay-area/17466332_1_east-bay-bay-area-first-time-camping.

  biblical scholar's date for rapture: may 21, 2011theologyjanuary 01, 2010|by justin berton, chronicle staff writerformer civil engineer harold camping of oakland, who runs family radio, has studied the bible for almost 70 years.credit: lance iversen / the chronicleharold camping lets out a hearty chuckle when he considers the people who believe the world will end in 2012.. "that date has not one stitch of biblical authority," camping says from the oakland office where he runs family radio, an evangelical station that reaches listeners around the world.

  "it's like a fairy tale.".

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  TonusOH

  Perhaps the most depressing thing about Camping's misadventures is to realize just how easy it was for him to recover from a false prediction that was easily demonstrated.

  He predicted the end in 1994. When it didn't happen, he simply shrugged his shoulders and said 'I got it wrong, but I'll get it right next time.' And people believed him!! In the interview from the first post in this topic, he is smugly mocking the prediction of 2012! As if he had not already gotten one prediction utterly wrong!

  Here is how he came up with the 2011 date (from Scientific American):
  

  The date of the crucifixion is itself somewhat uncertain, but Camping takes it to be April 1 in 33 AD. Come May 21, 2011, Camping says, 722,500 days will have elapsed since that occurrence. And 722,500 is (5 x 10 x 17) x (5 x 10 x 17). Those numbers are important, according to Camping, because 5 symbolizes atonement, 10 represents completeness, and 17 is for heaven.

  This is the guy who was mocking everyone else for getting end-of-world dates wrong!!

  (Edit to add a link to the above quote: https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/judgment-day-math-the-numbers-behind-harold-campings-may-21-claim/)
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  21

  Retirement

  by jehovaxx in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the difference is now blatantly obvious, older ones who went against direction of the gb and planned for retirement have relatively more comfortable lives.. those who trusted and followed gb direction never got further education or training, pioneered or spent most of their lives knocking on doors for free, making just enough to get by in a part time job.. if you followed direction from the gb then you thought the end was just around the corner so no need to plan for retirement.. now these ones have indeed got old which they were given the impression they never would.

  they are a burden on others.

  the state has to pay for them in their old age.

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  TonusOH

  LHG: I’m the one who got criticized/shunned for working!!

  I bet this happens to a lot of JWs, and I think they do the same thing you did- recognize the hypocrisy of it and walk away. Spending years being pressured to be a 'good JW' by living as if there was no tomorrow, then you retire with a pittance and the GB asks for more money from their comfortable HQ. The same organization that judged you for planning now wants the money you don't have because they wouldn't let you plan.

  The same place that has money for lawyers and for giving legal guidance to elders and congregations, but doesn't have any arrangements for helping the needy within their own organization. If you are needy, they point to the example of the old woman who dropped her last two coins in a contribution box at the temple, and was praised by Jesus. So if you have almost nothing, the WTS guidance is... give it to us!