Posts by TonusOH

73

Did God know adam and eve would sin?

by gavindlt in

to all those on this forum, i would love to know what your take on this vital question is..

TonusOH

I think he knew it was probable. After all, he created all living beings, and that meant designing their minds and how those minds work. Why do I think it was probable? Because in the Bible, there are a few times when perfect beings break his rules. Obviously the serpent did, which means that the angel who used it to deceive Eve also turned his back on god. Adam and Eve, two perfect humans, disobeyed the single rule they were given. Later on, other angels left their posts in heaven to have sex with human women. Revelation implies that as many as a third of the angels fell along with Satan.

When that many perfect beings cannot follow god's rules, it's pretty clear that there is an issue with the design, or that the design was intended to have this effect. So the odds were in favor of Adam and Eve breaking god's rules.

41

God cannot lie

by psyco in

the bible does not say that god does not want to lie, but that he cannot lie or it is impossible for god to lie.

.

so, if god cannot lie, for what purpose and why did he create creatures (satan, demons, humans) who can lie?.

TonusOH

I always saw it as god not needing to lie. It makes no sense to imply that god is somehow incapable of deceiving someone or saying something that isn't true. That would actually mean he was limited in some way.

But when you are the incalculably powerful magic overlord of a universe that you created with your own hands, why would you need to lie? Who would he need to fear, that he would try to misdirect them? Who could block him from any thought, word or action? It's not that he is somehow unable to lie, it's just that it wouldn't make sense.

28

JWs And Superstitions

by NotFormer in

prompted by a mention in a different thread.. cracks in the sidewalk, a pinch of salt over the shoulder, black cats🐈‍⬛; do jws have such superstitious beliefs.

are they allowed to?

would they be counselled if the elders became aware?.

TonusOH

I remember hearing stories like that. About sisters who managed to go door-to-door in a dangerous neighborhood, and when asked why they were left alone, a person in the neighborhood explained that no one wanted to tangle with the large dog that accompanied them. And of course, the sisters would explain that there was no dog with them... *insert Exorcist theme*

3073

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

by Simon in

jw
friends

uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

TonusOH

It's fascinating to watch as people try to butter him up when they are making even the slightest criticism or giving him advice. They must still think that he will see the praise and try to find some common ground. But, time and again, he tears into anyone who doesn't grovel. If your comment isn't fawning and adoring, he will rip you apart.

Yet again, it must be pointed out to his supporters: this is the man you are defending and giving your money to.

PS- If you think he's going to change, you're in for a lot of disappointment.

33

Where’s the 2023 Service Report?

by slimboyfat in

what’s keeping them?

this has got to be the latest it’s ever been.

maybe it’s the last one they’ll ever publish too, after dropping reporting hours for publishers ….

TonusOH

If they do release one next year, it probably won't be late.

66

My decision.

by MissDaSilva in

jw
friends

i’ve decided to disassociate from the jw organisation.

i cannot be part of a community that blatantly rejects the sacrifice of jesus in that demonic memorial ritual.

amazing what information you find when you start researching.. i’m writing my letter and posting it to the kingdom hall this morning.

TonusOH

I think each person has to decide for themselves how to exit. I couldn't do PIMO, it would be too stressful to pretend. I'm not DF, but the last time I set foot in a KH (or any JW gathering) was around 2006. I wouldn't feel comfortable playing a part around people with whom I shared friendship and religious fellowship for so long.

47

Does becoming (or remaining) one of Jehovah's Witnesses result in Poverty? Pew Research results differ from Watchtower claims.

by Balaamsass2 in

"raised in the truth" during the 50s, 60s,and 70s i repeatedly read and heard from the platform how reading the magazines weekly "was the equivalent of a college education" and how many had turned their family economic situation around by being "trustworthy" and giving up expensive bad habits most "worldly people" had.

sounded good.. what is the reality?

how does avoiding higher education, and then spending up to 20 hours a week getting ready for, commuting, and then participating in meetings and field service affect family finances?.

TonusOH

Teddnzo: Never bought a house because that would have been a lack of faith.

That would not have been a problem in the congregation I grew up in. About the only people who had houses or nice apartments were the elders and ministerial servants. The rest of us lived in the projects. Not because of faith, mind you. Some (most?) simply couldn't afford it. Others felt that with the end so near, why bother?

Maybe we should have paid more attention to who it was that could afford homes and nice cars. Happily, I bought my first home eight years ago. JWs have only visited once.

3073

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

by Simon in

jw
friends

uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

TonusOH

I encourage him to continue to talk about his journey, every last disturbing bit of it. He still believes that he is owed subscriber support and donations, and that those who contribute to his "wages" need to back off and let him be himself.

I'm wondering how many of his remaining supporters are thinking the way that commenter is- how can they recommend his channel now? If this isn't the last straw, what exactly are they recommending to people? At what point do you decide that he has crossed enough lines? What else does he have to do, for you to decide that maybe he isn't the person you want representing you?

3073

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

by Simon in

jw
friends

uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

TonusOH

fastJehu: I made the transcription.

You live up to your name, lol. I copy/pasted it, but it will take a while to format it properly. On the other hand, the amount of work the transcribed text saves is immeasurable.

3073

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

by Simon in

jw
friends

uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

TonusOH

PS- I see that YouTube has added a transcription option to many videos. At first, I thought it was only if the content creator uploaded a separate transcript but no... it's auto-generated. Man, it would be crazy if someone grabbed the text of his livestream video and dumped it into a text file...