The Bible does not say that God does not want to lie, but that He cannot lie or it is impossible for God to lie.
So, if God cannot lie, for what purpose and why did He create creatures (Satan, demons, humans) who can lie?
God cannot lie
by psyco 41 Replies latest watchtower bible
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Diogenesister
Good point....how is the lie even a concept, a thing? If it is not found in the original model /mold / programme?
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jhine
God created perfect. However he gave mankind free will and ' sin ' came into the world.
I think of it like someone who had devised a perfect computer programme and a jealous rival snook a bug in .
Not a perfect analogy but it helps me
Jan from Tam
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stan livedeath
I remember the WT released a book:- " Things in which its impossible for god to lie ", a pale green colour--?
We called it the Things book--or rather the Impossible book privately.
Which begs the question--" if there are things in which it is impossible for god to lie----then are there other things in which he does lie ?
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truthlover123
Titus 1:2 God cannot lie KJV ASV
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nicolaou
Read Genesis, God told the very first lie.
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nicolaou
And Jehovah God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Genesis 2:16,17 - American Standard Version
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PioneerSchmioneer
This is typical of "black and white thinking" that comes from cults, and it causes many of us to make all or nothing decisions even after we leave the Watchtower, showing that sometimes we cannot entirely stop the habit due to the hold that this type of reasoning has on us (i.e., "Since salt is totally bad then I will give using all forms of spices and never use any again," so to speak).
Theologically speaking, the understanding of a "lie" in Watchtower doctrine is very different when compared to mainstream religion. So one will come to very mistaken conclusions if they do not do things like study what Maimonides, Aquinas, and Augustine have to say on this matter.
In brief, it is only the New Testament that is talking about God not lying when compared to Satan the Devil (an entity which does not actually exist in Judaism, per se). And the type of lying the New Testament is talking about (the Old Testament actually has God telling lies, by the way) is not deception itself but making a statement that is injuious. This is why one needs to study the Church Fathers, the very ones responsible for preserving the writings of the apostles up until the time of the closing of the New Testament canon.
Note that at 1 Kings 22:19-23, God literally deceives Ahab with the help of righteous angels. That goes against the Watchtower concept of good and evil. Only Satan can lie, right?
There is a difference between malice and justice (and the above Old Testament story that explains in simple human terms a tale where God controls earthly matters--which is where Maimonides comes in and explains that due to God really not being an anthropomorphic entity, this could not have occurred in the terms we read).
That is an important point that we miss from our education as JWs, that God is not like God's creation that has an actual need for imitating anything we are or do in human terms (which includes lying). JWs still believe that God is an antrhopomorphic entity, but Judaism and Christianity does not. They believe that God is Ineffable and that the Scriptures use language that is reflective of the Bronze Age when even the Bible writers spoke of God like their idolatrous neighbors, as if God were an idol god: with a head, eyes, arms, hands, and even human attributes, feelings, and the abilities we have, like tell the truth and lie. God is not a human and is actually above all that.
JWs are not allowed to study what the great religious thinkers have taught (because it will expose the false doctrines of the cult). So this is why many have may have some of these questions. These are generally considered "boring" subjects covered in childrens' Catholic catechism and Jewish Hebrew school lessons that for the most part go over many young people's heads or if they do manage to keep their eyes open, they are likely to shelve the ideas way back into their heads where the cobwebs grow.
Some of this might be very hard to grasp if we have not moved past the need to see things in the "black and white" model and demand that things must either be this way or not. Watchtower theology implodes in on itself because it limits itself to the Bible, something neither Judaism nor Christianity does. (Even Fundamentalism doesn't, though it claims to--which I am not touching here.) Watchtower is a cult, and cult thinking comes up with very weird ideas.
Stop and think: Nobody in Judaism or mainstream Christianity has gone mad thinking about this issue, have they? Apparently it's because it is not an issue. It's a Watchtower cult thing. Can God lie? God is not an entity. Haven't you studied Maimonides before your confirmation or your bar/bat mitzvah? You didn't have either? Where did you grow up? In a cult?
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tenyearsafter
Hi Nicalaou...the argument could be made that Adam did die within a creative day. Another view is he died the moment he sinned, because prior to that he had everlasting life. Once he sinned, he was dying. All very metaphorical!
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TTWSYF
And Satan, who was a murderer from the beginning, is called the father of lies. God hates lies and lying….even for the “TRUTH”tm.
God did not lie, but those of us with free will, (angels and humanity), can chose to lie…and we do