TonusOH

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Posts by TonusOH

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  11

  Governing Body Culpability

  by NotFormer in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  i've seen people say something along the lines that the authorities would like to/have been trying to subpoena (members of) the gb (in csa cases).

  my question is: why don't they?

  if the gb are issuing orders to cover up evidence in csa cases, and otherwise interfere in justice being served in those cases, then they are accessories before (and after) the fact, and theoretically can be arrested and charged as such.

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  TonusOH

  I suppose they need a case where they can establish the involvement of one or more specific GB members, though they can also do what the royal commission in Australia did, which was to ask questions regarding policy in order to determine if protocol had been followed by elders in the cases they were investigating. But that commission is not the same as a criminal investigation.

  It might also be that, lacking a specific link to a specific case, prosecutors in the USA might be hesitant to involve the leaders of a church in an investigation in an attempt to demonstrate a broader problem. I am sure that many other church leaders would enjoy watching GB members squirm, but they would also realize that if the WTS can be treated like this, so can they. They would protest the treatment of the GB on general principle.

  I do think that the USA should have investigations like the ones in the UK and Australia. But, again, there would likely be a lot of pushback against the idea, since the USA is still very religious.
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  24

  What have I been doing for the last few years?

  by Lee Marsh in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i used to be here a lot.

  every single day almost.

  and then i wasn't.. well let's start with a before.

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  TonusOH

  Thank you for all of your work, Lee. Good to see that you are doing well.
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  47

  The First Holocaust

  by nicolaou in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  please, please ignore all the scientific impossibilities here, that's not what this topic is about.. let's make the assumption as many christians do that the bible is historically accurate.

  the noachian flood actually happened a little less than 4,500 years ago after which eight adults stepped off the ark to repopulate the planet.. that means that approximately 60 million lives had been snuffed out, a holocaust by anyone's estimation.

  as if that isn't horrific enough just think about the babies, toddlers and young children god killed.. he drowned all of them, every single one.

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  TonusOH

  The flood story also brings up an interesting thought: doesn't it speak to god's failures?

  First, we have a world that he created and populated, a creation that he 'saw was good.' It doesn't take very long for the first two humans to wreck his plans by listening to a snake and eating a piece of fruit. Fast-forward, and the entire population of the world (with perhaps eight exceptions) is so iredeemable that god decides to wipe the slate clean. He kills everyone (except those eight) along with nearly all other life on the planet. Fresh start!

  One of the first things Noah does is get drunk and strip naked, and his son sees this and tells his brothers. It appears that simply looking upon his drunk and naked dad is enough to earn this son his father's condemnation. These were the only people god felt justified in saving from destruction.

  Before long, humanity gets together and begins building a tower that will stand as a testament to their unity and power. God himself wonders at this, figuring that if they accomplish it, nothing might be out of their grasp. So, this is a good thing, isn't it? NO! God panics, confuses their languages, and scatters them. Disunity and conflict are guaranteed for generations to come.

  And today, we watch people try to interpret and discuss the Bible. And often, there are differences that are difficult to settle because the languages the texts were written in have their own differences from our modern versions and consensus seems impossible. This is thanks to that time when god invented a bunch of languages and forced them on to people in order to divide humanity.

  Jehovah is not just a wicked person; he's embarrassingly incompetent.
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  10

  Article: Pa. courts weigh whether Jehovah's Witnesses elders must report confessed child abuse

  by AndersonsInfo in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  https://pennrecord.com/stories/654791353-pa-courts-weigh-whether-jehovah-s-witnesses-elders-must-report-confessed-child-abuse.

  harrisburg – after the commonwealth court of pennsylvania dismissed a petition from a group of jehovah’s witnesses nearly two years ago, which argued the confidentiality of their confessions shielded them from being mandatory reporters of child abuse, the supreme court of pennsylvania overruled their colleagues and decided the commonwealth court must re-examine the action.. in a 24-page memorandum opinion authored by state supreme court chief justice debra todd and handed down feb. 13, the court found that their commonwealth court contemporaries violated the coordinate jurisdiction rule – which states “judges of coordinate jurisdiction sitting in the same case should not overrule each other’s decisions” – by its initial pair of separate findings that ivy hill congregation of jehovah’s witnesses did not have proper standing against the commonwealth’s department of human services, and that a grant of declaratory relief would not terminate the legal controversy.. todd was joined in the opinion by supreme court of pennsylvania justices christine donohue, kevin m. dougherty, david n. wecht and sallie updyke mundy.

  justices p. kevin brobson and daniel mccaffery did not participate in the consideration or decision of this matter.. “appellant is a congregation of approximately 140 individuals in philadelphia, pennsylvania, who follow the tenets of the jehovah’s witnesses religion.

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  TonusOH

  They don't appear to be ashamed that they tried to hide behind technicalities in order to avoid reporting CSA to the authorities. "We didn't break the law," they exclaim, as a way of defending their refusal to protect children.
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  3071

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

  by Simon in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

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  TonusOH

  "I am going to replicate my experience with dating girls, which is they lead you on and lead you on and lead you on, then they reject you"

  That doesn't make him sound like a clueless loser at all!

  Also, I wonder if he is saying that, aside from verifying that all the sex workers he 'dated' were at least 20-years-old, he also made sure they had a minimum IQ score? "Sorry, you're really gorgeous, but you don't seem too interested in deep and thoughtful philosophical conversation. Can I have my money back?"
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  12

  Watchtower May 2024 Who is being referred to as 'we'?

  by Listener in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  this is the magazine that presents some of the 'new light' from the oct. 2023 annual meeting.

  it discusses some of the things they have now decided they don't know and revised some of the things they do know, or think they know.

  when they start discussing some of the things they do know, most of them are still guesses and they use qualifiers.

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  TonusOH

  I also recall that they would use conditional language in the past. I was growing up in the 70s and 80s, so it may be that the 1975 fiasco led to them being a bit more circumspect during that time.

  It just highlights a problem for the GB: If they are god's mouthpiece but also get things wrong and have to use conditional language, how can you trust anything they say? How can they justify accusing people of apostasy for not slavishly accepting everything they say, when they know they are getting some things wrong?
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  8

  An intro to my experience

  by drippee in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  good evening,.

  i had an old account a few years back but since then have had a lot happen to me.

  i grew up in the faith, pioneered, did everything i could to keep my parents and peers off of my back, but nothing seemed to be enough to satisfy them.

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  TonusOH

  drippee: I miss my friends and family because I don’t have any now

  This is how the organization traps you. They build up an innate distrust of "worldly" people and demand that you avoid any kind of relationship with them, especially friendship or romance. When you leave the organization, not only do you not have a support structure in place, you also have become "worldly" yourself, and you subconsciously apply the distrust and dislike to yourself.

  So, you have two things you should focus on: ridding yourself of the negative self-image, and finding friends and relationships among normal (not "worldly") people. If you still believe in god, find a nearby church and see what it's like (this can be a difficult experience for those raised as JWs, again because of the negative association created by their "false religion" narrative).

  If you no longer believe in god, then go places and meet people. Again, this can be difficult for someone raised in the insular and restrictive JW lifestyle. And it sucks that you are learning many social skills now that you should have learned as a teenager. But there's no substitute for taking control of your life and living it, mistakes and all.

  Good luck!
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  28

  A special video has been released to assist people who have experienced child sexual abuse within the Jehovah's Witnesses in Australia

  by jwleaks in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  article.

  https://saysorry.org/2024/02/19/jehovahs-witnesses-and-the-australian-national-redress-scheme/.

  video.

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  TonusOH

  Vidiot: ten bucks says the loyalists put in charge of the “investigations” would dutifully obey any marching orders, not just because they’d knee-jerkly defend the Org against any threat, real or imagined

  That is what is described in the Australian Royal Commission document that summarized the JW portion (Case Study 29). Elders who dealt with two specific cases ignored or suppressed their instincts and followed the WTS guidelines to the letter. I think it was part blind obedience and part not wanting to deal with a nasty subject. But it meant that they put victims through additional trauma while they minimized the harm done to the perpetrators... even when they admitted to multiple occasions of abuse with multiple victims!

  The lapses in memory were obviously meant to protect themselves and the organization. Even in the case where one elder's detailed notes were found (and read back to them), they maintained that they could not recall certain events or messages. Which makes it seem as if they didn't think a CSA case was important enough to remember! They preferred to come across as extremely insensitive idiots than to admit that the whole system was set up to railroad victims and protect child rapists.
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  3071

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

  by Simon in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

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  TonusOH

  I thought we had a topic on it, but it looks like the topic was just asking for more info.

  https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5076755769982976/there-dummies-on-robert-hendriks-thread

  It links to a reddit thread. The info it has is a bit vague, and I don't recall if it has been verified.

  https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/1ap41ao/robert_hendriks_no_longer_head_of_us_pid/
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  28

  A special video has been released to assist people who have experienced child sexual abuse within the Jehovah's Witnesses in Australia

  by jwleaks in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  article.

  https://saysorry.org/2024/02/19/jehovahs-witnesses-and-the-australian-national-redress-scheme/.

  video.

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  TonusOH

  They certainly don't hold back.

  "Don’t be deterred by the current disinformation being published by either the Jehovah’s Witnesses institution or its Public Information Department."

  They refer to the WTS's letter claiming that "the religion... does not and never has sponsored any activities that have resulted in children being under its care, custody, supervision, control or authority." They respond "These claims are patently false."

  It looks like the redress scheme is intended to make the process less stressful for victims than a civil suit would be, though the latter could lead to much larger compensation. I think they understand how difficult it is for victims to go through a court action, and why many would prefer to take no action. I wonder if they will ever report the number of people who filed for, and received, redress through the scheme.