uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.
Is it me, or is he holding steady at 523 total members? I wonder if people are still subbed to his page, but no longer paying. Like a probationary thing.
Or maybe there is a trickle of new people joining for free to replace the steady trickle of losses during the month. I'm curious how that number will change in a day or two.
last night at my bible study group we looked at 1thessalonians ch 5 .
we have been working through the whole letter.
verses 1-11 start with .
I think that's accurate. Fear is an effective means of control. Someone who is having doubts might decide to stay in, if only because they fear that they will leave just before the end and lose out.
uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.
Chinapomo: Sure it might be interesting from an historical perspective
That could make for an interesting video series. Comparing the information he had when growing up a JW to the content they offer today. My Book of Bible Stories, then and now, sounds like a good starting point.
The problem, as ever, is that it would require time and effort to produce. Reading and reviewing the content. Finding points of comparison. Finding something interesting to say about it. He cannot be bothered. There's no one else to do the work that he used to take the credit for.
last night at my bible study group we looked at 1thessalonians ch 5 .
we have been working through the whole letter.
verses 1-11 start with .
There seems to be a subset of people who need to know the date and time, even though the Bible made it clear that this could not be known. It's one of those things that isn't even ambiguous, Jesus says no one knows the day or hour. The thought behind it is also pretty clear- always live a life that god will approve of, don't wait until the time is close to try and score enough points to earn salvation at the last minute.
But almost since the time those words were written, people have tried to figure out when the world will end. I don't think there is a number left in the Bible that has not been applied in some odd formula that, almost always, results in a date not far from when the 'researcher' is living in. It feels good to be the one who gets to see these things happen. It feels meaningful. "I was there when it happened" would be special.
there is a new approach to ministry where the direction is to just talk to people and listen to what they want to talk about.
the new school for the midweek meeting is completely different and is all about the new approach .
even before the no reporting changes field service dropped right off.
Jan, that conversation would end quickly. We were taught to avoid anything that wasn't part of the sales pitch. To accept questions was to risk 'being stumbled' and led down a path that could end with being disfellowshipped. I recall preaching with an elder one time, and we approached this man to start a conversation. Well, he quickly turned it back on us by offering his own testimony, and the elder quickly said "that's fine! bye!" and we were heading the other way right quick!
I remember that he mumbled under his breath that he did not need to hear the witness of demons. To him, the man's attempt to do the very same thing we were doing was demonic!
mark jones writes:.
how will history treat joseph rutherford?.
like ben gorden has said, it would depend on who’s looking back.
I think any unbiased and in-depth study of Rutherford would have to show the warts. His alcohol consumption was apparently the stuff of legend (possibly, or at least partly, in a literal sense). The failed prediction of 1925 would have to be prominent, not only because it was such a clearly-stated prediction, but because it led to a staggering decrease in followers that took a long time to recover from.
The building of Beth Sarim in San Diego is linked to the 1925 debacle. And it is all the more galling to learn that the only use the opulent residence got during its WTS owndership was as Rutherford's second -and then primary- home until his death. The extravagance of having two expensive luxury cars during a crushing economic depression should be an embarrassment to the WTS.
And there's more. The way he maneuvered the WTS to claim the presidency in direct opposition to Russell's will. The letter to the Nazi government, where he offered up his integrity in the hopes of getting favorable treatment for German JWs, later telling a very different story about it. The real reason that he and his co-conspirators got out of prison early (agreeing to remove certain pages in one of his books to appease the US government). The "millions now living will never die" campaign and speech.
Honestly, he is a dream subject for any documentarian. You could do a multi-part video covering hours, just dealing with all of the controversial or scandalous stuff. I think it hasn't happened because JWs just don't seem to have that sort of prominence in people's eyes, the way Scientology does, for example. If the organization's profile rose high enough, I guess it could happen.
i’ve not been paying close attention to watchtower developments, but talking to a jw yesterday it occurred to me the society (yes, still use that term - old school) have been sending out mixed messages in recent years.
from what i gather, a few years ago the gb announced that during the great tribulation jws would be required to preach a “hailstone message of judgement” which involved telling people it was too late for them to repent and they were definitely going to be destroyed.
there were hints that this could be very soon, “any day now” preaching could stop and the hailstone message come in, kind of thing.
Declaring it calls for courage on our part.
"Courage" isn't the term I'd use. Confidently telling everyone that they'd better join up or they will be personally killed by god himself takes some gumption, for sure. Courage will be required when nothing happens and you have to admit your dramatic message was just one in a long, long line of failed predictions (and far from the first time your organization did this!).
what is a corporation?.
"a corporation is a legal entity that is separate and distinct from its owners.
under the law, corporations possess many of the same rights and responsibilities as individuals.
Russell was a businessman, as I understand it. If he was going to sell books, I'm not surprised he formed a corporation to do it. And he seemed to understand that running a religious group through a corporate entity provided certain protection from having it taken from him in the future. Rutherford certainly understood corporate scheming well enough, it's how he got control of the WTS after Russell's death.
And that is, after all, one of the primary benefits (if not THE primary benefit) of incorporating: it creates a legal entity that can be used to manage a business (or, to a degree, a religion), which can provide a level of continuity that doesn't exist with a person, who might suddenly be unable to manage it. I do find it interesting that Russell understood, from the start, the importance of having a tangible and legal way of keeping control of an organization that 'belonged to god.'
uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.
Mikejw: I hope he is a better father figure for the girls
That's a pretty low bar to clear, though.
uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.
Mikejw: Imagine how his witness in laws feel?
I figure they feel like anyone else who has had to deal with him. He does not even seem to spare his wife and kids from his narcicissm, gaslighting and bullying. And the more anyone objects to how he treats them, the harsher he becomes.
As for stopping them from seeing their grandkids, I'm guessing that Dijana has them most of the time and she's probably not on the same page as he is about how they are cared for. What is he going to do? Demand to have them full time? I doubt he wants that, that would mean the kids would no longer be a convenient prop, they would be an actual responsibility.
