Posts by TonusOH

90

What is Your Favorite WT Lie?

by Sea Breeze in

i would like to start a thread on lies that the watchtower and their reps have told.

surely we all have one or two that truly sticks out in our memories, no matter how much we would like to forget.

my favorite wt lie: the reason they don't want to release the name of the "scholars" who worked on the new world translation is because they do not want to accept "glory and honor" from others.

I think the constant "end is THIS close" talk is the one that comes to mind the most. In part because of the way they try to rationalize the fact that the end still has not come. They talk as if the end will happen within months, if not weeks or days. If you wonder why it's taking so long, they say that it isn't taking long, not from Jehovah's point-of-view.

Of course, if you are taking that approach, then the end might not be for hundreds --or even thousands-- of years. After all, a day is as a thousand years for God! Oh, what's that? We're almost at the end of the sixth creative day? So it has to be any second now? Then why are you telling me about how patient Jehovah is, if that has nothing to do with when the end will happen???

75

WATCHTOWER JAN 2025: WHY IS THE WATCHTOWER OBSESSED WITH THE RANSOM?

by raymond frantz in

https://youtu.be/ocufvpm3t04?si=75zmussxknhlsrs7.

the first watchtower for 2025 is out, and immediately, articles 4 and 5 drew my attention.

these will be studied near the memorial season, a time the witnesses prepare for their yearly commemoration of jesus’ death, i will be returning on this articles near at the time.

TonusOH

Sea Breeze: So, when we choose to reject God, who is good... we are at the same time rejecting everything that is, good.

Are we, though? What does it mean to reject God? Let's say that I do not believe that this god is real, but I live my life in accordance with his desires. Perhaps I will not be rewarded with an eternity in heaven, but have I earned an infinity of torment?

Sea Breeze: Some people may feel that this gives God an unfair advantage in the relationship.

I don't have an issue with this. It's simply unavoidable that God has the advantage, and I don't consider it unfair. I just think that we have to understand what this means for us. If we define God in certain ways, we should be aware of what this could mean for our future, especially if it is going to last forever.

Sea Breeze: God is not asking us to be something other than what we are.

It wouldn't make sense for him to ask that, since he is responsible for what we are. I am more concerned with God's actions and how those define him. A God who is not bound by human standards of behavior and morality can only really be understood by his actions and attitudes. And I think the God that is described by Christians raises some very worrisome questions.

If God's primary concern is that I recognize him and recognize his greatness, and my eternal future rests on this act, it says something about him and his nature. It is not a question of whether he is justified in acting this way, but we must recognize that this being does not subscribe to the same definitions of good, or just, or kind, or fair as humans do. As described, this being is highly likely to condemn everyone at some point for falling short of standards that we cannot possibly meet. And there's nothing we can do about it. That's scary.

121

PRESIDENTIAL predictions...let the prognosticators have their say!

by Terry in

jw
friends

my only prowess in making predictions stems from my 77-years of life in the united statesgrowing up under president truman, eisenhower, kennedy, nixon, .....etc.

etc.i was a widdle kid sitting in front of a tiny black and white tv set when the very first broadcastsof political conventions, deal-making, debates (nixon vs kennedy), assassinations (jfk, rfk, martin luther king, etc.

) i grew up with duck and cover under my elementary schooldesk, the cold war, the iron curtain, the korean war, the vietnam war and i went to federal prisonas a jw conscientious objector while hippies, flower children, political activists protested and universitystudents were fired up on by troops.i grew up reading newspapers (2 of them).

TonusOH

I have to say, I honestly think Biden --even as brain-addled as he seemed-- would have gotten many more black votes than Harris did. It's not that the primary process was circumvented (as if that hasn't happened at least a few times over the past three elections, eh Bernie?), it's that the candidate offered up was just bad.

I mean, really... if you need Stephen A. Smith to be the voice of reason...

121

PRESIDENTIAL predictions...let the prognosticators have their say!

by Terry in

jw
friends

my only prowess in making predictions stems from my 77-years of life in the united statesgrowing up under president truman, eisenhower, kennedy, nixon, .....etc.

etc.i was a widdle kid sitting in front of a tiny black and white tv set when the very first broadcastsof political conventions, deal-making, debates (nixon vs kennedy), assassinations (jfk, rfk, martin luther king, etc.

) i grew up with duck and cover under my elementary schooldesk, the cold war, the iron curtain, the korean war, the vietnam war and i went to federal prisonas a jw conscientious objector while hippies, flower children, political activists protested and universitystudents were fired up on by troops.i grew up reading newspapers (2 of them).

TonusOH

I read that Trump got 3 million fewer votes than he did in 2020, and that Harris got 15 million fewer votes than Biden did in 2020. I don't think Biden voters were switching to Trump as much as Biden voters preferred to stay home instead of vote for Harris.

121

PRESIDENTIAL predictions...let the prognosticators have their say!

by Terry in

jw
friends

my only prowess in making predictions stems from my 77-years of life in the united statesgrowing up under president truman, eisenhower, kennedy, nixon, .....etc.

etc.i was a widdle kid sitting in front of a tiny black and white tv set when the very first broadcastsof political conventions, deal-making, debates (nixon vs kennedy), assassinations (jfk, rfk, martin luther king, etc.

) i grew up with duck and cover under my elementary schooldesk, the cold war, the iron curtain, the korean war, the vietnam war and i went to federal prisonas a jw conscientious objector while hippies, flower children, political activists protested and universitystudents were fired up on by troops.i grew up reading newspapers (2 of them).

TonusOH

Some months back, I had expressed the belief that the reason the DNC pushed Biden for a second term was that they weren't sure how to deal with Harris, should she decide she wanted to be the candidate. If they tried to get her to step aside and she resisted, it would have looked bad for the party to try to sideline a female POC. But she did not impress as a VP (which is a truly low bar in US politics) and anyone could see that she wasn't up to the task.

But Biden's debate performance couldn't be ignored and he was finally made to end his campaign. The only option was Harris. Someone who lacks the ability to express confidence smoothly and who struggles to control any situation she is in. This, plus her frequent troubles expressing herself clearly, is a bad combination for a political campaign. I wasn't ready to write her off because Trump always seems to be walking a tightrope. But, just like 2016, polls could not figure him out.

Pollsters will weep with relief once he exits the political scene. Assuming they don't go extinct, first.

39

Why do most Ex jW W‘s seem to be liberal?

by JaredScott-1977 in

i’m just curious about this dynamic i don’t care personally one way or the other but i do have friends who have chosen to be conservatives and they get totally destroyed on social media pages for their choice.

it’s almost like a lot of ex jw w become as toxic and his judgmental as jehovah’s witnesses themselves what’s up with that?

i also know conservative ex jw’s that can do the same so again i’m not leaning one way or the other i’m just noticing factual observations.

TonusOH

I think one reason they do not align with the political right (at least in the USA) is because the political right is often closely aligned with 'Christendom.'

I'm not sure if that's entirely true (the alternative would not be very attractive to them either), but one reason my mother is so adamantly opposed to the GOP is because they are aligned with the religious right and because they support Israel (whose existence is tied in with some end-times beliefs of other religions).

75

WATCHTOWER JAN 2025: WHY IS THE WATCHTOWER OBSESSED WITH THE RANSOM?

by raymond frantz in

https://youtu.be/ocufvpm3t04?si=75zmussxknhlsrs7.

the first watchtower for 2025 is out, and immediately, articles 4 and 5 drew my attention.

these will be studied near the memorial season, a time the witnesses prepare for their yearly commemoration of jesus’ death, i will be returning on this articles near at the time.

TonusOH

That means that free will can be modified -to coin a term- to have a limited effect. In other words, I could have the freedom to love, to choose to follow/deny God, and so on, while still having full mastery over sin. This, I think, is the ideal. With one exception, I would be free to live and love without risking eternal damnation.

It wouldn't be perfect, but it would almost be sensible enough for me to believe that it was the design of a god.

75

WATCHTOWER JAN 2025: WHY IS THE WATCHTOWER OBSESSED WITH THE RANSOM?

by raymond frantz in

https://youtu.be/ocufvpm3t04?si=75zmussxknhlsrs7.

the first watchtower for 2025 is out, and immediately, articles 4 and 5 drew my attention.

these will be studied near the memorial season, a time the witnesses prepare for their yearly commemoration of jesus’ death, i will be returning on this articles near at the time.

TonusOH

Sea Breeze: But, my point is how can a person receive love from someone else without it being offered out of their own free-will? It would be meaningless, common, of no special value..... and received as such.

You seem to be saying that the concept of free will is just a description of our ability to make any decision. Is that what free will is? If so, it opens up a whole different can of worms. For starters, how can we ever be free of sin if that is what free will is? And, now that I think of it, why compel us with a sinful nature if we are supposed to have free will? The concept gets more and more convoluted the deeper we dive into it.

If free will only refers to being given the choice to freely accept or reject God, that would not affect my ability to offer love willingly to another person.

But this just reinforces my point: if my only options are to have free will with all of its attendant consequences, or be an unwilling automaton in a universe where no one ever suffered, how is the former the better option? And how is an all-powerful and all-knowing being incapable of coming up with an option where everyone is free to make choices without the endless suffering that the Biblical god has visited on us?

2910

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

by Simon in

jw
friends

uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

TonusOH

It's no surprise that he hates Trump. It must be like looking in a mirror.

121

PRESIDENTIAL predictions...let the prognosticators have their say!

by Terry in

jw
friends

my only prowess in making predictions stems from my 77-years of life in the united statesgrowing up under president truman, eisenhower, kennedy, nixon, .....etc.

etc.i was a widdle kid sitting in front of a tiny black and white tv set when the very first broadcastsof political conventions, deal-making, debates (nixon vs kennedy), assassinations (jfk, rfk, martin luther king, etc.

) i grew up with duck and cover under my elementary schooldesk, the cold war, the iron curtain, the korean war, the vietnam war and i went to federal prisonas a jw conscientious objector while hippies, flower children, political activists protested and universitystudents were fired up on by troops.i grew up reading newspapers (2 of them).

TonusOH

Jan: So does anyone want to predict how long Trump will last before Vance finds a way to take over ?

There are probably a number of people here (in the US) expressing the same concern. Every four years, half of the country expresses hope and the other half expresses despair. Four years later, we will somehow have managed to avert the END OF DEMOCRACY AS WE KNOW IT.

If Republicans secure a majority in both houses of Congress, the left will really lose its collective head, even though our history tends to show that a President whose party has control of Congress often gets less done than he would if Congress were in their opponent's hands. And many Republicans despise Trump as much as Democrats do.

Which is to say that we'll be fine. It will be a clown show, for sure; that can't be helped with Trump at the helm. But he'll do better than his detractors think, and worse than his supporters hope. That's just how it goes. Personally, I'm glad that the election results look like they will be clear enough that we can spare ourselves six months of court challenges and recounts. We can jump right into protests and contentious media confrontations from day 1.