I think Russell got the idea for the invisible presence from Miller's followers (Barbour?), who did the same thing with the 1844 or 1874 failures. When the expected outcome did not occur (a visible rapture and establishment of a new kingdom) they updated their beliefs and claimed that they were 'expecting the right thing at the wrong time' or vice-versa. Russell would use the same reasoning, if I am not mistaken, adding that the mistake worked out for the best by keeping the faithful in expectation of the Lord's return.
TonusOH
JoinedPosts by TonusOH
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89
Myth of 1914
by peacefulpete inthe wt engages in history revisionism when insisting the world changed overnight in 1914. in fact the european power struggles that came to a head were centuries old.
millions of lives had been lost in the wars of the 19th century, with the world a powder keg the years prior to the assassination of franz ferdinand in june 1914 which is often said, albeit rather arbitrarily, as the start of the war that escalated over the next 4 years into the great war.
take a look at these two pages and ask if the wt's interpretation of history seems accurate to you.
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11530
It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars
by Newly Enlightened inoriginal reddit post (removed).
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TonusOH
Maybe we can keep track of which illnesses he contracts each month just before his next Zoom meeting is due. Strep throat, COVID, seasonal flu, common cold, jammed a pine needle up his urethra, and so on.
He might want to remember to actually do the Zoom call from time-to-time, though. Taking your supporters for fools so brazenly is not a good idea. It's like scheduling a $50 'conversation' with a 20-year-old and she doesn't show up. I mean, it's just rude.
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why celebrate xmas?
by enoughisenough inmany on here are ex jw....they have left the jws because of coming to find out the many false indoctrinations.
one of the things learned as a jw is that there isn't anything true about xmas being the birth of jesus.
( matt chapter 2 tells a whole different narrative about the baby jesus than what is portrayed by the christian churches) they learn the ways that are celebrated are pagan practices jesus told the samaritan woman that god wanted to be worshipped in spirit and it truth.
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TonusOH
I'm not a religious person anymore, so for me it's just a festive time where you can engage in some fun rituals, including the gift exchange and decorations. I don't have to worry about the religious meaning of it, or if I am taking part in something that God may disapprove of. I don't think that God is any more real than Santa Claus, so I'm free to celebrate as I wish.
I'm honestly not even conversant with the reasons why Christians celebrate it because all I ever knew was the JW approach. Would God find the celebration of His/His son's birth to be a problem, even if much of it is borne of other cultures and celebrations? I don't know. Jehovah is not the most predictable personality, to me.
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Anyone know of specific subliminal pictures?
by cognac inthe only one i know about is the big jesus in the revelation book.. know of any specific other ones?
i want to show hubby....
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TonusOH
It could be that the artists were having some fun at the WTS's expense. Or non-expense, as I am assuming that these were brothers painting this stuff for free. Being asked to donate time and effort and skill for someone else's benefit might lead to a bit of mischief. Personally, I love the idea that they were sneaking this stuff in.
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Striving for more
by punkofnice ini hate my life!
i have to say it, but i do.. i have a sneaking suspicion that because i was raised in the dangerous jehovah borgness cult, that this is the reason.
i was told if god didn't watch me masturbating or smoking, then he'd let me live forever in perfect conditions.. i left the borg and as a result my jw wife left me and re-married another gung ho jobo.
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TonusOH
I am hesitant when it comes to giving advice to someone who may be depressed, because I think it can be a medical issue that is best dealt with by professionals. But I have dealt with a similar issue to yours, wondering how to deal with a changed perspective after leaving a life that felt carefree (in terms of future worries).
I agree with Simon that it is a huge help to have something that you want to do, that you would do even if you weren't being rewarded for it. Looks like you have that with the band you are in. If you have any other endeavors, work on those. They give us a sense of purpose that is personal, and I think that helps a lot mentally.
One of the things I did at one point was sit down and try to figure out what I wanted in life. Everyone, I believe, wants to be happy more than anything else. But we all have our own ideas of what makes us feel happy, or fulfilled, or challenged, etc. So I needed to find mine. I came up with three things: comfort, security, and control. Comfort meant having a good home life with the necessary creature comforts. Nothing extravagant, just the stuff I felt would make me happy. Security was partly financial and partly wanting to live somewhere that had low crime and nicer people. Control meant just that- having control of my life on as many levels as possible.
Once I knew what I wanted, I could map out a life that checks off those boxes. I'm lucky, I guess, in that my life as a JW was quiet and mostly isolated, so I am perfectly happy living by myself. That helps with the comfort and control parts of my list. Had that not been the case, my list would be different, but I'd still be working to be happy as much as I can.
That would be my advice- find things you want to do, and figure out the things that you need in your life so you can be happy more often, and then work towards those. Nearly everything that makes us happy is free or has a reasonable cost, which means it's only a matter of finding our happiness and making relatively small changes to achieve it.
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Norway: Society hires a Law Firm
by Festus inmaybe society's own lawyers are so bad that they need to hire top notch lawyer's.. funny i thought jehoober would not need any help.. anyway here are the links.
media.
jehovas vitner mistet statsstøtten – vil saksøke staten – vårt land (vl.no).
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TonusOH
They will fight because they want the money, and also because they don't want a precedent set. If one country takes action due to the shunning policy, others may decide to take a closer look at the policy. Shunning is one way to keep the rank and file in line. Losing that would be a real problem for the WTS.
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Merry Christmas
by jhine ini don't think that it's too early for my annual merry christmas thread .
merry christmas everyone.
jan .
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TonusOH
Merry Christmas, everyone!
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11530
It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars
by Newly Enlightened inoriginal reddit post (removed).
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TonusOH
Diogenesister: I'm not sure if iicsa gave a reason for not requesting the data. It may be that they did not have the power, did not have the remit, or....and this is my theory .....that in their view the 'numbers' were not that relevent.
It could also be that they're not going to jump for every entitled crank who shows up without a pacifier and makes demands, hoping to use any action as a reason to very publicly pat himself on the back.
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Why do Jehovah's Witnesses attend so many meeting?
by RULES & REGULATIONS inronald curzan ( helper to the teaching committee ) gives a talk on the real reasons jehovah's witnesses should attend meetings.
it looks like the zoom meetings have softened up many witnesses.
many are probably turning off their cameras and zoning out.
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TonusOH
If you are busy going to meetings and field service, there are two effects: you are present for the constant repetition of important points (such as: obey the GB without question) and you have little time for anything that might cause you to drift away. The issue they have with Zoom meetings is that they require so little preparation and participation. You get back a lot of time, and no one will find out that you didn't prepare for the meeting. If your field service consists mostly of writing letters, making calls, and standing next to a small magazine rack, you get back a lot of time as well, and are no longer bothered with having to practice the sales pitch.
Less time being indoctrinated and more time being free to think for yourself is a sure way to get someone to the point where they realize that they would rather be doing anything else. Then you start to connect the dots. Why don't I want to go to the meetings/field service? Because it sucks. Why does it suck? Hmm... this is a long list of reasons...
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89
Myth of 1914
by peacefulpete inthe wt engages in history revisionism when insisting the world changed overnight in 1914. in fact the european power struggles that came to a head were centuries old.
millions of lives had been lost in the wars of the 19th century, with the world a powder keg the years prior to the assassination of franz ferdinand in june 1914 which is often said, albeit rather arbitrarily, as the start of the war that escalated over the next 4 years into the great war.
take a look at these two pages and ask if the wt's interpretation of history seems accurate to you.
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TonusOH
Raymond Franz's Crisis of Conscience deals with just about all of the dates that the WTS uses and has used. Here are quotes from just a few pages (revision 2004 of CoC):
Page 180: Issue of HERALD OF THE MORNING (C.T. Russell was an assitant editor) refers to the dates of 1843/4, 1874/8, and 1914 (when the 'Times of the Gentiles' end). Franz got the photocopy he used from the archives at Brooklyn.
Page 182: Russell, in the July 15, 1906 edition of The Watch Tower, tells of how he asked Nelson Barbour (the editor of the above issue of HOTM) to demonstrate the validity of 1874 as the date when Christ began to rule in heaven. He says "the evidence satisfied me. Being a person of positive convictions and fully consecrated to the Lord, I at once saw that the special times in which we live have an important bearing upon our duty and work as Christ's disciples; that, being in the time of harvest, the harvestwork should be done; and that present truth was the sickle by which the Lord would have us do a gathering and reaping work everywhere among his children."
Page 184, footnote 8: Refers to the book Prophecy, published in 1929. Pages 64,65 mentions 1874 as the date that Christ's invisible 'presence' began.
Page 184, footnote 9: Notes that the Cedar Point convention in 1922 is when the organization first began to shift the date of Christ's rule from 1878 to 1914.
Page 185: Refers to the January 1881 Watch Tower: "So, ours, [referring to the time of harvest] beginning in 1874 closes with the end of the "day of wrath' and end of the "times of the Gentiles,' 1914-- a similar and parallel period of 40 years."
Page 187: Quoting from the same January 1881 Watch Tower: "We shall now present what we adduce from the types and prophetic points as seeming to indicate the translation of the saints and closing of the door to the high calling by 1881."
Page 187: Quoting from Russell's 1889 book The Time Is At Hand, pages 239 and 247:
"Our Lord's presence as Bridegroom and Reaper was recognized during the first three and a half years, from A.D. 1874 to A.D. 1878. Since that time it has been emphatically manifest that the time had come in A.D. 1878 when kingly judgment should begin at the house of God."
"The year A.D. 1878, being the parelle of his assuming power and authority in the type, clearly marks the time for the actual assuming of power as King of kings, by our present, spiritual, invisible Lord-- the time of his taking to himself his great power to reign"
"...October, 1914, will witness the full end of Babylon, "as a great millstone cast into the sea," utterly destroyed as a system."
And so on. Like so many end-times prognosticators, Russell was convinced that these events were happening in his lifetime, or were centered around that period of time. Rutherford amplified this to an almost comical degree, making statements about 1918, 1920, and 1925, before he realized that his efforts were severely hurting recruitment and retaining of followers.
Franz covers a lot of it, using the WTS publications and almost always listing the magazine/book, along with the issues/pages in question. There's a lot of it there. Penton may have more, but I haven't yet read Apocalypse Delayed.