Posts by TonusOH

11530

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened in

original reddit post (removed).

TonusOH

Diogenesister: How on earth is a "survey" only taken by apostates, or at best PiMOs whose views on Watchtower are essentially the same, going to be of help to JWdotnet "for (sic) a business perspective"???

That sounded like an effort to include anything that could add weight to his demands. If he had been asked for specifics, I would expect either a lengthy word-salad full of Google-searched technical terms, or a terse "I'm not here to do your work for you" dismissal. It's a classic technique of snake-oil salesmen; imply that everyone can benefit in a tangible manner if they provide him with support, while avoiding any explanation of just how this would be possible.

282

How Will They End 1914 Teaching?

by EmptyInside in

i'm sure this has been discussed, but 1914 has to go away.

instead of, the overlapping generation teaching, they should have just ditched 1914. .

they should have done that a long time ago with 1975. it's the last of the teachings in the charles taze russell era.. i'm thinking they just will stop talking about it, and it will be out of the mind of the rank and file loyal witnesses .

TonusOH

The level of hair-splitting required to deny the 70 years of domination claim is staggering. If your standard is "the exact wording*," then it should be applied to any claims in this topic, in which case the Bible doesn't say anything about any of the claims, right?

*(Or even better, the exact wording in English!)

51

Is it mathematically posible for Noah and his sons to have populated the earth?

by Fisherman in

bible says flood occurred approximately 4000 years ago.

that is about *200 generations of breeding to get to the population on earth now.

keep in mind that the population increase is geometric.

TonusOH

One would also have to take into account the factors that can slow population growth, especially infant mortality rates and disease epidemics. As late as the 1950s, infant mortality rates in the USA were around three percent. Globally today, it's still around 4-5%. In the distant past, it may have been as high as 50%. The Black Death of the mid-1300s may have wiped out more than a quarter of the world's population at the time, and the world population would take some 150 years to recover. And then there's the near-constant state of war the world seems to find itself in for as long as humans have been around.

A minor nitpick would be that we also have to assume a steady ratio of men-to-women to keep up an ideal rate of births. I have no idea if we've ever reached it, or how much that ratio fluctuates, but it could be a factor.

282

How Will They End 1914 Teaching?

by EmptyInside in

i'm sure this has been discussed, but 1914 has to go away.

instead of, the overlapping generation teaching, they should have just ditched 1914. .

they should have done that a long time ago with 1975. it's the last of the teachings in the charles taze russell era.. i'm thinking they just will stop talking about it, and it will be out of the mind of the rank and file loyal witnesses .

TonusOH

no-zombie: by the time they die ... Jesus would have been ruling invisibly in heaven (doing god knows what) for 200 years.

Well, he was apparently twiddling his thumbs for almost 2,000 years before ascending to the throne. What's another 200 years?

The problem for the WTS is that their brand thrives on urgency. If the end is not extremely close, then recruiting slows and the message is not well received. If the end is not upon us, it is also difficult to retain members who waver-- they might hedge their bets and stay in otherwise. They occasionally will explain that 'God is patient and wishes for all to be saved' as a way of explaining why the end has not yet happened. But they cannot change their approach. The end must be very close, always.

As for 1914/1918/1919, time can help to wipe away a lot of that, though the internet has changed the ease with which they could make old ideas go away. I do think they have an issue with putting that era behind them: both Russell and Rutherford were larger-than-life figures with moments that the organization can still point to (photo-drama of creation, Cedar Point talk, etc). Knorr... not so much. Do they find some way to highlight his time as president? Do they just forget him and focus on Fred Franz? Oh, wait... the most notable moment of Franz's career was the 1975 prediction.

Yeah, they're screwed.

170

Staying in physically for all the benefits

by Indoubtbigtime in

i wonder how many are like me staying pimo for the great association and gathering etc.

also find it very interesting having a front row seat watching the collapse of borg.. im not wasting any more time or money on anything i don’t want to do like preaching and mostly just go on zoom .

there is nothing i want to do that would be considered disfellowshiping sin, i’m married and want to live by bible principles but i have serious doubts that the gb were chosen by god and are his one and only spokesmen on earth.

TonusOH

ThomasCovenant: I'm very surprised it took you so long to realize that.

I'll admit, he had me going for a while. I'm a bit mortified that it took the "NASA is Satan without a T" bit* to clue me in. I'll blame old age and long-term damage from JW indoctrination.

*I have to admit, the "T-minus" bit was funny!

11530

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened in

original reddit post (removed).

TonusOH

The way I see it, the survey adds value to JWN and is a valuable resource to its members, but I am forced to pay for it out of my own pocket and am not allowed to ask for any help in financing it.

Damn. Simon was practically snatching the food off of Lloyd's table!

26

Why Does the WatchTower Society INVEST in unethical enterprises?

by Terry in

investing in unethical enterprises.

in the ocean, big fish swallow the little fish while the big fish are swallowed by the even bigger fish.. below is an example of this principle.. .

a fellow named mccann donated 50k shares of rand cam engine corp. to the watchtower society.. rand cam engine corp. manufactures aircraft engines for commercial, recreational, and military clients.

TonusOH

From Crisis of Conscience, 2004 edition:

Consider this case that came up for discussion and decision by the Governing Body. One of Jehovah’s Witnesses, driving a truck for the Coca-Cola Company, had as his route a large military base where numerous deliveries were made. The question: Could he do this and remain a member in good standing or is this a disfellowshiping offense?

[...]the majority of the Body decided that this work was not acceptable and that the man would have to obtain another route to remain in good standing.

Even indirect 'support' was unacceptable to the GB, when it came to the rank and file.

46

Bible MIRACLEs!! Are they a Myth or Emeth?

by Fisherman in

the bible records miracles such as resurrections, angels, prophecy and destructive acts of god to mention a few.

are these all a pack of lies?

how do you explain them?

TonusOH

Just consider that a follower of Sai Baba could support their position using the same arguments Fisherman has used. If we set the bar low enough, almost anything can be true.

11530

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened in

original reddit post (removed).

TonusOH

"Keeping me involved" sounds like his way of hinting to his patrons that he might quit if the income drops too much. I don't think that holding your channel hostage is the right way to monetize it over the long term. How can he make videos condemning the WTS for manipulating people, when he is funding his channel by manipulating people?

9

For JW's, the 'ORG' is more important than Jesus Christ

by BoogerMan in

in the november 2022 study watchtower, "jehovah's organization" (or variants) is repeated at least 37 times.. the word 'organization' - like 'governing body,' 'trinity,' hell-fire,' & 'immortal soul,' - doesn't exist in the holy scriptures.. interestingly, jesus christ is mentioned only twice in all of the study articles - as an aside..

TonusOH

They diminish Jesus because they see him as competition. Jesus is a mediator, a path between the Christian and God. The GB see themselves in this role. They are Jehovah's conduit, not anyone else. When they refer to "Jehovah's organization" they are referring to themselves. Without them, there is no path to salvation.

Jesus gets in the way of their claimed role and authority. So they try to marginalize him.