Posts by TonusOH

38

“Lazarus, come out!”

by Fisherman in

many people here have expressed faith in evolution and in other theories—but in all honesty, do you have any hope whatsoever in your heart or in the back of your mind ?

truthfully..

TonusOH

Behe had his chance at the Kitzmiller v Dover trial, and did not impress.

In any case, their approach is the same one I used to rely on- assume God as the default, then find flaws in any other approach. It works well enough, especially for those who are not evolutionary biologists or physics researchers. But trying to prove God as the default, without focusing on alternatives, is pretty much impossible. Otherwise, it would've been done and those alternatives could be readily dismissed.

The best you can get, if you don't have sufficient education in those subjects, is that God is necessary- he must exist, in order to explain the universe and life. But that's as far as you can get with that approach. It explains why there are so many different religions and religious denominations- without a way to reliably research it, no one can determine who God is, only that he exists because someone had to create everything. I find that unsatisfying, if God was interested in me and wanted me to get to know Him.

23

Is there really any universal issue of Sovereignty?

by Linda14 in

i can agree that satan doesn't see god as a good ruler as stated at gen 3:1-5. he doesn't seem to see gods laws as right or good.

but whether there is an understanding/agreement between god and satan afterward to the effect that he can take the mantle of rulership to show whether his style is best is doubtful.

that conclusion is probably reached because god hasn't destroyed satan, and he is also called the ruler of the world in the bible.

TonusOH

That doesn't make sense, to me. Let's assume that Satan says that humans can run their lives just fine on their own. How does that undermine Jehovah's sovereignty? God created everything, and without him there are no humans, no Earth, no nothing. If God decides to, he could wipe it all out and start over. Any plan to change the way things work relies 100% on what God has created and what God maintains. Any attempt to follow different rules depends 100% on God playing along.

What was anyone going to prove with the time they were given? What issue needed to be settled?

23

Is there really any universal issue of Sovereignty?

by Linda14 in

i can agree that satan doesn't see god as a good ruler as stated at gen 3:1-5. he doesn't seem to see gods laws as right or good.

but whether there is an understanding/agreement between god and satan afterward to the effect that he can take the mantle of rulership to show whether his style is best is doubtful.

that conclusion is probably reached because god hasn't destroyed satan, and he is also called the ruler of the world in the bible.

TonusOH

I think Epicurus covered that.

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

I think this only works if you presume that God is 'pure good' or so good that he could not do something we might consider wicked or evil. Otherwise, God doesn't have to prevent evil. He may simply not care, or He may want to allow it. As for why, that would depend on God's personal qualities or desires or goals, or any number of factors. I think most current religions want God to be good and just, because the alternatives are unpredictable and that is very scary.

41

Made up field service experience at yesterday's Public Talk

by RULES & REGULATIONS in

remember the made up stories of witnesses in djibouti,africa where they had to walk 2 days in alligator infested waters with no shoes in the blazing sun to attend the meetings?

they made it to the meetings in these terrible conditions.. talk about made up stories!

here is a field service experience that was told at yesterday's public talk which would fall into the made up stories!.

TonusOH

I moved to rural Ohio seven or eight years ago. I have lived in a house and two apartments in different areas. I know there is at least one KH in the area, and probably two or three others. The WTS doesn't know where I live. JWs have knocked on my door a total of one time since I've lived out here.

This is not a complaint, mind you. But they do not seem very active out here. I never see the carts, I never see JWs at any doors or walking down a street (granted, I do not expect this in a mostly rural area). This is a contrast from the tightly-crowded city I lived most of my life in, where they were a common site (and where I was one of those JWs for a long time).

38

“Lazarus, come out!”

by Fisherman in

many people here have expressed faith in evolution and in other theories—but in all honesty, do you have any hope whatsoever in your heart or in the back of your mind ?

truthfully..

TonusOH

Hope? Yes. It would be nice for there to be a God that will extend my existence and give my life new meaning or purpose beyond what I would otherwise have. If there is a God, it would be good to understand why the world is as it is.

As for the back of my mind, that's trickier. We don't control our subconscious. It is unreliable and very difficult to correct wrong ideas or reactions. I am glad that I did not grow up in a religion that taught something like hellfire and eternal suffering, because that would still torment me even if I had stopped believing in it consciously. As it is, my only sadness is the idea that the ride will eventually end and I won't be able to see how things go.

As for faith in evolution, I think there is an important difference. When I was a believer, it was because I'd always been told that Jehovah existed, and was never encouraged to challenge this idea, so that was my starting point. When I finally did challenge it (unintentionally, as it happens), I found that it wasn't possible to prove God's existence. I could challenge the alternatives, but that is not the same as proving it on its own (which would have made the alternatives moot!).

Evolution, like any scientific theory, was developed using the scientific method. While not perfect, it does a good job of weeding out human failings over the long term. With more than 150 years of research and challenges and new developments and discoveries, the theory of evolution apparently has become stronger. I have faith in that process. If there are things that science has wrong about evolution, they'll figure it out in time. Same for other fields of science. We cannot eliminate the biases that cause people to get wrong answers. But the scientific approach can weed them out over time.

40

"Mankind's Search for God" book

by My Name is of No Consequence in

this book was published around 1990, but was never studied (to my knowledge).

does anyone know the reason why?.

TonusOH

Rushdie was assaulted last year while giving a speech and stabbed multiple times. His wounds were quite severe but he did survive the attack. I can see why the WTS would tread carefully when making any mention of Islam.

773

Breaking News: Anthony Morris III no longer serving on the Governing Body

by WingCommander in

jw
friends

this has been announced on the jw's official website, in the "jw news" section.

this is not a joke.

anthony moron da turd is out as a gluttonous body member!

TonusOH

JW doctors

Oh god, such a terrible chill just ran up my spine...

11530

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened in

original reddit post (removed).

TonusOH

Seems like a lot of money spent on petrol. Hope it wasn't only for a photo op.

85

Physically in mentally agnostic ie sitting on the fence

by ExBethelitenowPIMA in

hi everyone i’m not pimi or pimo i’m pima.. i don’t think the gb have everything right but i’m sitting on the fence that maybe they do some things.. if the great trib starts i will jump that side of the fence.. this is a definite little sneaky advantage dodging but even by their own doctrine last min some could come in.. i suspect many are like me.. i spent years in bethel and am very disappointed and disillusioned by it all.. but at the end of the day i love the bible and think it is the word of god and i don’t see any other religion that comes as close to what jesus describes his true followers or who are fulfilling mat 24:14..

TonusOH

When I was a JW, we all assumed that no one else really proselytized, aside from perhaps the Mormons. If you'd asked me, I would have thought that no one else bothered to preach to others at all. It would not surprise me that a current or recent JW would be convinced that no other organization spreads the word of God on anywhere near the level of Jehovah's Witnesses. It is one of those things that is taught to them, the same as the claim that no other religion has such internal love and unity as they do.

It's not something that your average JW will question or even try to confirm. They just understand it to be true, and that these 'facts' help to demonstrate that they are truly God's chosen nation. It can make it difficult for the person who leaves the JWs. Even after my fade and eventual realization that I was not religious, it never occurred to me that the JWs were wrong about being ahead of everyone else in terms of proselytizing or their sense of brotherhood and togetherness.

60

WARNING! If you DELIBERATELY avoid the JW memorial.....

by BoogerMan in

.......you will experience a fate worse than death!

you have been warned - don't come crying to me if you don't go.

you've got one month to change your mind.

TonusOH

Charlton Heston played Moses, of course. ;)

I can't tell you how many times we watched that movie. In the days before the internet, we were captive to whatever the handful of available channels had on. I think I've blocked out the memories of all of the times I saw The Wizard of Oz, Gone With the Wind, The Sound of Music, and so on.