Posts by TonusOH

196

would you be more happy not knowing what you now know?

by ExBethelitenowPIMA in

a good question is would you be more happy not knowing what you now know?.

were you more happy pimi?

are all the pimis more happy than the the pimos or the pomos?.

TonusOH

ExB: I think you are throwing in a lot of bad religious leaders in the same boat as the Bible when in fact they are in a complete different boat.

What I mean is, there is no universally agreed-upon framework for judging the truth of religion and religious claims. Science, we are told, cannot do it, since religion deals with metaphysics and with the supernatural, which science (the study of the natural world) cannot be applied to. But there is no acceptance of how to apply metaphysics or "spiritual science" to religious claims in order to determine if there is any truth to any of it. Without that framework, religions make claims that cannot be tested, including by other religions. Which do you trust? Why?

As for science and the Bible, keep in mind that the Bible refers to things like a global flood, which science shows us cannot have happened. Or the resurrection of a man who was dead for more than a day. It tells of an occasion where the display of striped branches caused livestock to give birth to similarly-striped offspring. One of its writers appeared to think that demons caused disease. And so on. I think science works just fine without the Bible. I don't really think the Bible works too well at all.

196

would you be more happy not knowing what you now know?

by ExBethelitenowPIMA in

a good question is would you be more happy not knowing what you now know?.

were you more happy pimi?

are all the pimis more happy than the the pimos or the pomos?.

TonusOH

I don't find either account intuitively reasonable, at least with regards to the origins of the universe. But even with that, I'd have to admit that the people learning via the scientific method have a reliable pathway for understanding our world and universe. Ask religious people around the world about god and the universe, and you will get multitudes of explanations, many of which do not harmonize at all, even among those groups that claim to believe in the same god. They rely on guesswork, and without an agreed-upon method of learning what is true, each claim is as valid as any other.

Ask scientists around the world about the universe, and you will get a much tighter range of answers to any question, including quite a few admissions that there is much they have yet to discover. But what they have learned, they've done so through a rigid and agreed-upon method that helps --over the long term especially-- to weed out the kind of sloppy and biased approach that leaves religion with too many claims, and too few real answers. Speak with actual biologists, and you'll get a better understanding of how they got to where they are, and why they consider evolution to be so firmly established as to be beyond doubt. Do the same with astronomers, physicists, and so on, and you'll get the same response.

I have faith in that process. The same process that has brought us the endless stream of technological advancement that touches every aspect of our lives on such a level that we take it for granted these days. I cannot trust a process that has left the world divided into groups that cannot agree to a framework for determining who is right or who is wrong. Which uses the very same arguments to promote their religious beliefs, then ignores those same arguments to reject alternative religious beliefs.

81

Careful what you wish for! Regarding Jehovah in the New Testament

by pizzahut2023 in

ok i'll bite.. let's say for a moment that jehovah's witnesses are right, and that the nt autographs (the originals) contained the tetragrammaton.let's say that the nt writers always wrote "jehovah" in greek (iexoba, as the witnesses spell it currently) when they quoted the hebrew scriptures, whether they quoted from the hebrew version or the septuagint, and jehovah's name appeared on the quote.

let's say that the original septuagint always had iexoba whenever they were referring to jehovah.then we have that the original septuagint said in psalms 101:26-28 the following:"at the beginning it was you, o jehovah, who founded the earth, and the heavens are works of your hands.

they will perish, but you will endure, and they will all become old like a garment.

TonusOH

"Sometimes a text in the Hebrew Scriptures refers to Jehovah, but by virtue of His delegation of power and authority, it is fulfilled in Jesus Christ."

Well, isn't that just the most convenient thing!

65

The currently missing 'Titan' submarine. What do you think?

by SydBarrett in

jw
friends

any opinions are just speculation, but my guess, being morbid, is that there was not a hull breach and implosion (although that would have been the most merciful fate for them), but instead the amateur level of building this thing meant that it lost power and communication and got itself tangled in the titanic's wreckage or is sitting on the actual seabed with no way to release ballast to resurface.

terrifying.

what's your gut feeling?

TonusOH

Risk is one thing (and I don't think you could pay me enough to get into a "commercial" submarine for a tour a couple of miles below the surface). If they cut corners, the risk could go from a tiny possibility to an almost guaranteed disaster. I wonder, if you told the people paying such large dollar amounts that they might not be able to track the sub if it got lost, would they have stepped aboard?

I don't know anything about deep-sea diving or the capabilities of tracking technology two miles down, but if you told me "you've got around 40 hours of oxygen, and also if you get lost we probably can't find you" I'd have asked for my money back on the spot.

196

would you be more happy not knowing what you now know?

by ExBethelitenowPIMA in

a good question is would you be more happy not knowing what you now know?.

were you more happy pimi?

are all the pimis more happy than the the pimos or the pomos?.

TonusOH

ExB: but the entire theme is would you be happier not knowing answers and keep your blinkers on? Can you be comfortable with not knowing?

Those seem like two different things. A person who is ignorant about the facts of a matter may not know he is ignorant. His understanding is the truth, as far as he knows. Such a person could very well be happy, if his understanding leads him in that direction.

A person who recognizes that he doesn't have certain answers is aware of his ignorance. He can be comfortable not knowing, as long as he recognizes that those answers are currently not available. He can want those answers, but the thought of replacing the lack of knowledge with explanations based entirely on imagination would not make the uncertainty go away. On some level, once you recognize that we don't have the answers, self-deception will not work.

39

PROOF Mormons have the truth

by neat blue dog in

daniel prophesied that god would “set up a kingdom” that would “never be destroyed” and would “stand for ever” (daniel 2:44).

in making this prophecy, he spoke of the church of jesus christ of latter-day saints... and it will continue to progress until it has “filled the whole earth”... hundreds of thousands of people are baptized every year.

the book of mormon is being translated in many languages.

TonusOH

punkofnice: That's a bold claim with no evidence given.

What do they think they are, a religion???

196

would you be more happy not knowing what you now know?

by ExBethelitenowPIMA in

a good question is would you be more happy not knowing what you now know?.

were you more happy pimi?

are all the pimis more happy than the the pimos or the pomos?.

TonusOH

ExB: Last years drama one of the prison guards in the great tribulation just jumped in last min.

Was the guard an active JW who expressed his doubts to apostates regularly, or a non-JW who made a choice at a critical moment?

I'm surprised to hear that you would prefer that the masses remain ignorant about the effects of the vaccines. Many are, presumably, still taking boosters or encouraging others to vaccinate. That would, in your estimation, cause more harm, wouldn't it? Wouldn't remaining ignorant be a greater danger to everyone in the long run?

And no, I wouldn't try to talk someone out of their beliefs on their deathbed. That's the exception that proves the rule, though, don't you think?

11530

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened in

original reddit post (removed).

TonusOH

I think he has convinced himself that his 'activism work' is so important that it overrides anything else that he does. He will bury the embarrassing or controversial stuff as much as he can, and use any mental gymnastics to rationalize his efforts to forget them. Mostly, he tries either blaming others, blaming the WTS for messing him up (mentally, psychologically, emotionally, penisly, etc), claiming that others are being unfair, or that they are no better than him, that the bad is offset by the good, and so on.

People like him, by the time they actually face up to who they are and what they have done, have built up so much baggage that it is likely to crush them. That, or they decide that they are irredeemable and embrace the role of the villain. I think he's still at a crossroads and either option remains a possibility.

196

would you be more happy not knowing what you now know?

by ExBethelitenowPIMA in

a good question is would you be more happy not knowing what you now know?.

were you more happy pimi?

are all the pimis more happy than the the pimos or the pomos?.

TonusOH

I would flip it, and look at it from the other end. Have you ever had to deal with ignorant people and thought "I'm glad they can't see how things really are"? Put it in the context of the vaccination issue you discuss all the time. Do you feel that the world is better off with so many people ignorant of what you feel is the truth of that matter?

After all, being ignorant about a matter is often more than just option A or option B. And even the seemingly safe option isn't always that. If it turns out that the JWs are right about everything (impossible as that may be), then you won't be saved because you straddled the fence (lack of faith) and consorted with apostates (guaranteed DF, and you get on Jehovah's "you gonna die" list). If it turns out that they're just another religion that got it wrong, you have an endless choice of religions, most of which are probably also wrong. Makes god seem like a bit of a sadist.

39

PROOF Mormons have the truth

by neat blue dog in

daniel prophesied that god would “set up a kingdom” that would “never be destroyed” and would “stand for ever” (daniel 2:44).

in making this prophecy, he spoke of the church of jesus christ of latter-day saints... and it will continue to progress until it has “filled the whole earth”... hundreds of thousands of people are baptized every year.

the book of mormon is being translated in many languages.

TonusOH

ExB: Don’t they believe in aliens and they will go to other planets

If I am not mistaken, they believe that they will become gods and rule planets of their own. Which they learned when a man put magic golden plates in his hat and shoved his face into it, thus allowing him to learn the truly true truths of the universe. I mean, as religious stories go, it's not the craziest.