Posts by TonusOH

69

Where Does Watchtower Doctrine Contradict Scripture?

by Vanderhoven7 in

here are some areas that i have found:.

not only is watchtower eschatology offbase, which is not critical, but so is watchtower soteriology … which is critical.

the bible says not to put trust in men who cannot save.

TonusOH

I've got to side with EasyPrompt on this one, at least in regards to the specific point in question. The idea behind draining an animal's blood was to show reverence to the giver of life, yes? Breast-feeding is, in a world where god exists, a provision that god made for humans and thus would not be at odds with the edict against eating blood.

However, this also makes the recommendation in Acts a bit vague. Does "abstain from blood" also cover a blood transfusion in the present day? Blood collected for such uses is not (typically?) obtained by draining a corpse. And clearly the existence of blood fractions in mother's milk shows that the ban is not absolute. Would god be offended if blood were taken from one person for the purposes of saving lives?

11530

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened in

original reddit post (removed).

TonusOH

Put me down for a loss of 21, Toblerone5.

36

Did anyone really enjoy assemblies?

by SydBarrett in

jw
friends

the twickenham post made me think of this.

i have a few jw family members on facebook and being summertime, their pics of the convention have shown up in my fb feed.

along with their comments about "i wished it would never end" or "what a glorious weekend".

TonusOH

We had one in Philadelphia's Veteran's Stadium in 1983, and I think we had at least two in the Nassau Coliseum on Long Island. Those were more than an hour each way, I think.

33

At what point, does one become apostate to the religion of Jehovah's Witnesses?

by Vanderhoven7 in

at what point does a jehovah’s witness cease to be a jehovah’s witness?

what if a witness doesn't believe some of the official teachings of the governing body but remains silent on these subjects to avoid being disfellowshipped?

is he or she an apostate to the faith?

TonusOH

I don't think there is a clear demarcation, it is one of those things where it may be subject to interpretation.

I recall a Watchtower magazine article explaining how a couple was disfellowshipped for apostasy. They had a different interpretation of a matter and would not stop telling others about it. Later, the WT came around to the same interpretation, but the two were not reinstated. Their crime was not being right or wrong, but going against the directives of the GB. Presumably, they were warned to stop their behavior and ignored the warnings. So, which part made them apostates- disseminating a different view, or ignoring demands to stop?

Ray Franz, in Crisis of Conscience, explains that the GB took the approach that even thinking such thoughts was sufficient to constitute apostasy. Doubtless this was approach was taken specifically to deal with Franz and the others who were disfellowshipped for apostasy at that time. I don't think this is how they view it today, though they would probably warn the rank and file that entertaining such thoughts may lead to a bad outcome. In which case, thinking these things may lead to apostasy but not actually be apostasy.

And yet, apostasy would imply opposition to the WTS and the GB. The GB will refer to apostates as "opposers" sometimes. If you are a loyal JW, but you differ on a point or two, are you opposing the WTS/GB? Does it require action (telling others about it) or is it enough that you believe that they have it wrong? What if they change the teaching later? Were you an apostate for having it right when they had it wrong?

11530

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened in

original reddit post (removed).

TonusOH

Boy, it sure is easy to wind him up, isn't it?

36

Did anyone really enjoy assemblies?

by SydBarrett in

jw
friends

the twickenham post made me think of this.

i have a few jw family members on facebook and being summertime, their pics of the convention have shown up in my fb feed.

along with their comments about "i wished it would never end" or "what a glorious weekend".

TonusOH

I was 100% in during much of that time, so they weren't all that bad. Yes, the bus trips could be rough and the afternoons could be something of a grind, knowing you had to slowly work your way through the crowds and sit on the bus for another long ride and then get ready for the next day. Four or five days of that, and you were glad when it was over.

But there was a lot to enjoy, as well. In 1979, we moved from the South Bronx to an apartment further east (still in the Bronx) and started going to a different congregation that was in a different circuit but the same district. So the big conventions were a time to connect with people we knew but rarely saw anymore. The dramas were fun to watch. The announcements of new books/tracts were exciting. And you would occasionally get a speaker who was very good at keeping you listening (sadly, those were always too rare).

It was just too long. Including travel, we were looking at 10-12 hour days sometimes. And four or five days of that was draining. Not as bad when I was in school, since we would just go right back to summer vacation. But once I was working, it got tougher to get through the week of work, the convention weekend, then another week of work.

12

Should a person die for their religious BELIEFS?

by Fisherman in

in ancient israel many of the prophets were killed as a result of their religious assignments —from god.

even soldiers were sent out to fight against idolatrous “uncircumcised” and logically some died for example jonathan, the son of king saul.

these soldiers were said to be fighting the wars of jehovah and there was no miraculous salvation for everybody all of the time.

TonusOH

If I am not mistaken, the Christian belief is that death in service/devotion to god would be rewarded with eternal life in heaven. In that case, it makes perfect sense to remain loyal to god, even if you are facing death.

If you are wrong, then death in such a case would be unnecessary. So it really comes down to how certain you are that you picked the right god, or the right version of god.

11530

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened in

original reddit post (removed).

TonusOH

Hiding the subscriber count looks like a painful decision for him. I think he enjoys the validation from having the number there and showing how many people are supporting him, even when the number drops month-by-month. And I think it can help to draw more support-- when potential patrons see how many people already subscribe, that is a powerful recommendation by itself. It's a boost to his ego and his wallet.

But it's also become a way to track his struggles and even make monthly bets on it. That has to be exasperating for him. If he does hide it, it's a sign that the anxiety from having it up is too much for him to bear. Either way, that's the bed he prepared for himself. He will have to lie in it now.

11530

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars

by Newly Enlightened in

original reddit post (removed).

TonusOH

LMsA: It’s like going to a county courthouse in Oklahoma or Saskatchewan and saying you have a defamation case to file against 7 people in 4 different countries, none of them your own, all based on things they said on the internet.

...and then making public statements warning the 'defendants' that they'd better lawyer up, and offering his followers updates on his 'legal case' against them. On the internet. Where erasing your mistakes can be extremely difficult...

13

Only one weekly meeting?

by mikeflood in

new wt october 2023....first an article remembering 1923....they make changes, the had a "prayer, praise and testimony weekly meeting".. after an study article about obey, specially paragraph 18.. i have a wild guess, next year, just one weekly meeting for the borg..

TonusOH

Could they really grow and survive if they met once a week via teleconference?

On the other hand, a two-hour Sunday meeting as the only meeting of the week would probably be very welcome. Preach on Saturday, meet on Sunday, avoid the stress of mid-week meetings. That is not the worst way to spend your time as a JW.