TonusOH

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Posts by TonusOH

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  26

  New Study: Mars Once Was Completely Covered in Oceans

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  "the new study indicates that the oceans that covered the entire planet in water were at least 300 metres deep.

  they may have been up to one kilometre deep.".

  yet, some secularists say they are sure that the earth was never completely flooded with water above the tops of mountains as described in genesis.

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  TonusOH

  SeaBreeze: Why would any XJW invest heavily in another institution of man that is increasingly known for its bias and lying studies?

  There are no institutions that are not of man, is what I've come to realize. The scientific method is meant to deal with the various ways in which people distort the learning process. It doesn't stop people from lying, or from being driven by bias and other failings, but it does help to weed those out over time, which is the best we can hope for. The most important feature of science is that it recognizes that we can be wrong. This gives us the opportunity to make progress, even when it is painfully slow.

  It is, IMO, unique in this. Other human institutions --including religion-- practically codify human bias and bad intellectual approaches, making them extremely difficult to update when they are found to be wrong or misguided. It's adherents are forced to work around those obstacles and shape the truth to fit them, because honest inquiry might lead to censure, oppression, or even death. In spite of this, I think we've come remarkably far when we consider the mental roadblocks we have had to overcome, time and again.
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  3104

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

  by Simon in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

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  TonusOH

  By making several accusations (liar, invasive attitude, repeating myths) he distracts from the point the user was making (make the video available so people can judge for themselves). Any attempt to respond will be derailed towards those points instead of the relevant one. This isn't anything new, he always deflects.
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  26

  New Study: Mars Once Was Completely Covered in Oceans

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  "the new study indicates that the oceans that covered the entire planet in water were at least 300 metres deep.

  they may have been up to one kilometre deep.".

  yet, some secularists say they are sure that the earth was never completely flooded with water above the tops of mountains as described in genesis.

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  TonusOH

  SeaBreeze: So, what can be done to combat the documented bias, lying and stealing that goes on in the scientific community? How is the average person supposed to know which scientific studies are false, and which ones are true?

  Such will always be a problem plaguing any efforts at learning. The scientific method works over the long term, as more people do research and experimentation. It is a system that has worked quite well, as the current states of scientific and technological understanding demonstrate. We can have confidence in those studies which produce the world we live in, and must allow time for those that will shape the future.

  Cutting edge science will always be inexact and subject to bias and incorrect info, since it requires time and more research and testing to get a better understanding of what is just being discovered. There will always be 'recent studies' that challenge our knowledge. And some of them might even have found something that changes what we know or understand. That's just how learning works, especially where people are pushing the current limits.

  It seems as if, everytime some new discovery is made or knowledge is gained, people will use it to promote all kinds of ideas. Some of those will pan out. Most don't. This is also a part of learning. We will be wrong as often (if not more so) than we are right. And that's fine- the stuff that is right will eventually rise to the top, and the stuff that is wrong will eventually be discarded.
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  65

  Just had a thought…

  by Vidiot in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i been reading quite a few experiences on reddit lately, and their seems to be a common theme coming up….

  …dialed-up-to-eleven shunning of xjws by their witness relatives.. it reminds me of back in the day, listening to some of the over-the-top vitriol displayed by hard-core loyalists when the topic of evolution or apostates came up….

  …i was gobsmacked when i finally realized these guys weren’t offended and indignant because they thought it was lies….

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  TonusOH

  It only works if you refuse to look for other information. I was a good little JW while I was in, so my beliefs on evolution were informed by the WTS books, filled with quote mines and flagrant misinformation. When you know so little, it's pretty easy to 'refute' anything.
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  3104

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

  by Simon in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

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  TonusOH

  LMsA: His argument that he needs to be compensated enough to live on is hanging by a thread if not completely severed already.

  I think this is the big dilemma for him. His best option for recovering from the mess that The Silvio Mafia he created is to simplify his work flow. That means that his videos won't be as polished and 'professional looking.' But it would require far less work and the content would be fine for his viewers; most people prefer substance over flash. But it would wound his pride to make videos that were of the same quality as the rest of the exJW content creators. His bitterness at the community and his narcissistic pride would not accept that. He rose above the dregs of the exJW community, and to return to that level would crush him.
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  26

  New Study: Mars Once Was Completely Covered in Oceans

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  "the new study indicates that the oceans that covered the entire planet in water were at least 300 metres deep.

  they may have been up to one kilometre deep.".

  yet, some secularists say they are sure that the earth was never completely flooded with water above the tops of mountains as described in genesis.

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  TonusOH

  Scientists can only work with what they find. The article you link explains that they can make those inferences because the geology of Mars allows them to see a more reliable history in its rocks, whereas the tectonic acitivty on Earth has "erased all evidence of what happened in the first 500 million years of our planet's history." Thus, they can't do more than speculate about whether there was ever that much water on Earth in the past.

  Also, it's pretty awesome that there's a Professor Martin Bizzarro out there. That's a Bond villain in the making if there ever was one.
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  41

  Jesus never existed!!

  by jw_uncovered in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  buddha of india .

  he performed miracles and raised one man, el-azar-us, from the dead.

  the sun is the "light of the world.

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  TonusOH

  There's a huge difference between the idea that the Biblical character of Jesus was based on a man who really did exist, and the idea that the Biblical character of Jesus really did exist. A man named Jesus could have preached religious messages and gathered a following and become controversial and been executed for treason due to false accusations from bitter religious leaders. The additional claim that this man was also god made flesh, and that the whole thing was his plan from the start, requires far more than testimonials.

  Jesus is, after all, not the only person whom others claimed was divine. It's not a rare find; many ancient men claimed divinity and/or were granted such by others. Heck, it happens today.
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  51

  “You know how I know that they're finished out there? The carts.”

  by Athanasius in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the watchtower's many legal problems and the jws' use of carts in their preaching work, reminded me of a scene and dialog from the film patton.. in a scene where patton is viewing a battle site the morning after, he says to an aide about the nazis: “you know how i know that they're finished out there?

  in my dreams i saw the carts.

  they kept buzzing around in my head and i couldn't figure out why.

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  TonusOH

  If I was in, I would be thinking of all of the ways that I could witness to people that did not involve writing letters, knocking on doors, or standing in front of a cart. It really only leaves informal witnessing.

  On the one hand, informal witnessing can be much more effective than the tedious door-to-door or magazine-cart options. On the other hand, how long will it be before everyone avoids you because you "turn every conversation into a Bible lesson"?
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  16

  Predictions for the next decade?

  by jehovaxx in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  as it’s nearly the new year my prediction over the next decade or so will see the sense of urgency dwindle.

  then some huge huge changes.

  for example by 2034 in a decades time, they will have address the 1914 issue and will come out and say we can’t be dogmatic.

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  TonusOH

  We've mentioned the 1914 problem in a different topic. I think it will continue to be a problem because they decided to double-down on the 'generations' teaching with that silly overlapping generations explanation. They could have reported on new light that taught them that the generations explanation from Jesus did not have a present-day fulfillment.

  It would have been simple and easy to understand, and then they could gauge the reaction of the rank and file and see if they needed to receive any more new light after that. The overlapping generations teaching means that, as more and more years pass, they have to keep wrestling with it. It would have been one thing to say hey, we had the dual-prophetic fulfillment wrong. It's much harder to have to explain why you then came up with that awful explanation.

  Between that and the easing of obligations for physical attendance and door-to-door work, I can see them going either way in terms of how many people join or stay. But I have no idea if they will be able to keep enough money coming in to support operations at Ramapo.
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  3104

  It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

  by Simon in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

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  TonusOH

  DerekMoors: You buy it, open the box and inside is a note. "Hi folks, sorry for not giving you the item you paid money for

  Now that made me laugh out loud. So perfect.