jp1692

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Posts by jp1692

• 
  149

  why jw's commit suicide?

  by notalone in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  we all know the rate of suicide is high among jw's.

  my question is this- was there some subliminal messages that encourage this.

  i was a born in and my entire life i would have these thoughts that could come out of nowhere,"kill yourself.

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  jp1692

  Ruby: mental health includes such things as anxiety, self esteem and aggression and these are the things that are measured in social science and psychiatry to indicate mental illness. do you agree?

  Mostly.
  

  Ruby: such things would affect participation - do you agree?

  Yes. Mentally ill people are often MORE active in a religion or other type of cult. They are frequently the most zealous of the zealots as they try to prove their level of devotion and commitment.
  

  Ruby: such things as anxiety, lack of self esteem and aggression would be indicators to other members of the group of the level of commitment, love for others and love for god etc. Do you agree?

  No. I do not at all agree with this. I think your conclusion here is completely non sequitur. Both my research and personal experience provide ample evidence to the contrary in a wide variety of cult and cult-like settings, JW and otherwise.
  
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  149

  why jw's commit suicide?

  by notalone in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  we all know the rate of suicide is high among jw's.

  my question is this- was there some subliminal messages that encourage this.

  i was a born in and my entire life i would have these thoughts that could come out of nowhere,"kill yourself.

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  jp1692

  Ruby: for Atran see chapter 6 Ritual and Revelation - the Emotional Mind of In God's we trust: the evolutionary landscape of religion

  Thanks. I looked this book up on line and actually ordered it because it looked very interesting. It should arrive sometime today.
  
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  16

  Have you ever looked back at your early posts on here?

  by stuckinarut2 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  no doubt we are all overjoyed at how we have progressed since breaking the shackles of the society!.

  for those that have been here on this forum for some time, have you ever looked back at the version of "you" that first started posting here, and compared yourself with where you are at now?.

  i am overjoyed at how much i have grown as a person!.

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  jp1692

  SIAR: I am overjoyed at how much I have grown as a person!

  Agreed on all counts. It's a useful exercise.
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  15

  2 witnesses told me the literature they were handing out were not religious

  by charity7 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  two witnesses came to my door the other day and i politely told them that i was not interested.

  they told me that it was ok and that what they were handing out was not anything religious.

  i told them sorry and that i was still not interested.

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  jp1692

  Liars gotta lie.
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  22

  I have a theory related to the cult spectrum

  by ILoveTTATT2 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  translating jwfacts into spanish has made me critically analyze pretty much everything paul has written.

  i would say paul is right 90%+ of the time.

  some things are just things that are outdated, on other occasions, things are partially right and just need to be tweaked.anyhow... one of the articles is "where else would i go"?since i am an atheist, ideally, for me, the answer would be "become at least agnostic, if not atheist, and lead an evidence-based life".

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  jp1692

  Ruby: This site for example - is it morphing

  How so?

  Can you give examples?
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  149

  why jw's commit suicide?

  by notalone in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  we all know the rate of suicide is high among jw's.

  my question is this- was there some subliminal messages that encourage this.

  i was a born in and my entire life i would have these thoughts that could come out of nowhere,"kill yourself.

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  jp1692

  Ruby: I think I would have to disagree with your last two sentences too as they come across as rather fundamentalist. A disciplined environment has been found to work very well for reocvoring drug addicts and so long as they remain within those confines they do very well. there are other groups as will that do with better in more disciplined environments - at school for example.

  WTF? Here are my "last two sentences":
  

  • Too little strictness never leads to tragedies such as Jonestown. Fundamentalist extremism of all sorts are malignant cancers of the soul and psyche.

  How is either of these sentences "fundamentalist"? And what do you even mean by that?

  In my last sentence, I explicitly comment on my conclusions about "Fundamentalist extremism" and its effects on individuals. It is not an ideological statement of belief.

  The first of the two sentences is addressing Iannoccone's "that too much strictness causes just as much harm as too little" with which I disagree.

  Finally, your comments about "a disciplined environment" and its benefits are true, but have nothing to do with fundamentalist extremism. You completely changed the subject. I think you are confusing discipline with fundamentalism and extremist ideologies. They are not the same, not at all.
• 
  149

  why jw's commit suicide?

  by notalone in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  we all know the rate of suicide is high among jw's.

  my question is this- was there some subliminal messages that encourage this.

  i was a born in and my entire life i would have these thoughts that could come out of nowhere,"kill yourself.

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  2. 
  3. 
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  jp1692

  Ruby: Atran was investigating how people with mental health problems fare amongst groups like Jehovhas witnesses ... Atran concluded that Jehovahs witnesses are no help to those with mental illnesses whereas mainstream religions do help with depression and well being.

  Do you have a specific quote including page number to support this? Also, it would be helpful if you supplied a complete citation, or at least a link, to the source for your comments. That way, people that are interested in researching this further (me in this case) can actually find and consult the source document.

  Ruby: people with mental health issues are treated like free riders and are given a hard time because they cannot keep up and indeed Scott Atran 2002 who cites Iannaccone's paper argues that because such religions have no place for those who cannot perform to their demandingly strict standards they leave and this is why there are high turnover rates amongst such religions.

  Also, I did a keyword search of the Iannaccone paper you referenced using the terms: mental and health. Neither of those words appear once in that paper. Could you please provide a specific quote with a proper citation to support your claims? If you cannot or will not do that please refrain from making unfounded, unsupported assertions which only obfuscate informed discussion about this very serious issue.
  

  Thanks!

  JP
  
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  46

  10 years on.....

  by snare&racket in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was a window cleaner, i was at the time unemployed, homeless.

  i had no education to be proud of (high school one a two b's rest c's) i was a jehovahs witness.

  i had been a pioneer.

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  jp1692

  S&R, thanks for the update. Your story is inspiring!
• 
  8

  Existential Psychotherapy

  by Brokeback Watchtower in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  existential psychotherapy: death, freedom, isolation, meaninglessness .

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhqc5md6qv0.

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  jp1692

  BW: That seems to be the more comfortable way to be just like the herd.

  Yes. It's not coincidental the the Bible uses the term "sheep" for those that blindly follow.

  BTW, I appreciated the brief recounting of your experience realizing JWs do not have "the Truth." It's a painful realization and a difficult process to recover from. Good for you for doing the hard work.
• 
  149

  why jw's commit suicide?

  by notalone in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  we all know the rate of suicide is high among jw's.

  my question is this- was there some subliminal messages that encourage this.

  i was a born in and my entire life i would have these thoughts that could come out of nowhere,"kill yourself.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  jp1692

  Ruby: If you have mental health issues then it is best to stay away from witnesses.

  It's just best to stay away from JWs, and ANY cult for that matter, whether you have mental health issues or not!

  So Ruby, I just searched the paper by Laurence R. Iannaccone which you referenced on page 4: "Why Strict Churches Are Strong."

  Why did you reference this in relation to the OP? "Suicide" wasn't mentioned once in the entire 32 page paper and, although JWs were mentioned four times, none of those references had anything to do with mental health!

  That being said, there was an intriguing comment made by Iannaccone in his conclusion when he wrote: "A study of unsuccessful sects is needed to test the [rational choice theory] theory's prediction that too much strictness causes just as much harm as too little." Although I fail to see the need to restrict such a study to "unsuccessful sects," the questions raised by this recommendation about high-control, authoritarian groups (aka "cults") are very germane to the topic under discussion.

  I would also caution that a paper like this is limited in its application to groups like JWs, because the very underlying assumption of "rational choice theory" does not apply to cults. No one willingly and knowingly join a destruction cult. They join a group which they perceive as benign at the least and hope is very positive. The harmful effects are hidden and only discovered after one has made the commitment.

  Also, Iannaccone's comment that "that too much strictness causes just as much harm as too little" is simply not true. Too little strictness never leads to tragedies such as Jonestown. Fundamentalist extremism of all sorts are malignant cancers of the soul and psyche.