Posts by somebody

13

Happy JWD Birthday Blondie!

by rocketman in

jw
friends

may 28th marks two years since blondie has been posting here.

blondie, thank you for all the research you do and the fine posts you contribute in our behalf.

happy jwd birthday (or, if you prefer, anniversary)!

somebody

HAPPY ANNIVERSARY/BIRTHDAY, BLONDIE!

THANK YOU FOR ALL THAT YOU CONTRIBUTE!

1

To: nowisee..CHILDREN and meetings

by somebody in

jw
friends

i was wrong about the year that separate meetings ( or classes ) for children at their level of comprehension.

rutherford put a stop to it in 1936( not in the 40's or 50s as i had thought, and it was shortlived), and the reasons are stated in the procalimers book.

here is a little info from the procalimers book:.

I was wrong about the year that separate meetings ( or classes ) for children at their level of comprehension. Rutherford put a stop to it in 1936( not in the 40's or 50s as I had thought, and it was shortlived), and the reasons are stated in the Procalimers book.

Here is a little info from the Procalimers book:

Proclaimers book ( 1993) Chapter 16 Pages 244-245

Where Young Ones Fit In

During the early years, the publications and the meetings of the Bible Students were not particularly geared to young people. They could attend the meetings, and some of them did so and listened eagerly. But there was no special effort to involve them in what took place. Why not?

The understanding of the brothers at that time was that only a very short time was left until all the members of Christ’s bride would be united with him in heavenly glory. The Watch Tower, in 1883, explained: “We who are in training for the high calling cannot turn aside from the special work of this age—the work of preparing ‘the Bride, the Lamb’s wife.’ The Bride is to make herself ready; and just at the present moment, when the last touches of adornment are being put on preparatory to the wedding, every member’s service is required in this all-important, present work.”

Parents were strongly urged to shoulder their own God-given responsibility to care for the spiritual instruction of their children. Separate Sunday schools for youths were not encouraged. It was obvious that Christendom’s use of Sunday schools had done much harm. Parents who sent their children to such schools often took the view that this arrangement relieved them of the responsibility to give religious instruction to their children. The children, in turn, because they were not looking to their parents as a primary source of instruction about God, were not motivated to honor their parents and obey them as they should.

However, from 1892 to 1927, the Watch Tower did set aside space for comment on the text featured in the “International Sunday School Lessons,” which were then popular in many Protestant churches. These texts were for many years selected by F. N. Peloubet, a Congregational clergyman, and his assistants. The Watch Tower discussed these texts from the standpoint of the Bible Students’ advanced understanding of the Scriptures, free from the creeds of Christendom. It was hoped that in this way the Watch Tower would find its way into some of the churches, that the truth would thus be presented, and that some church members would accept it. Of course, the difference was evident, and this angered the Protestant clergy.

The year 1918 came, and the remnant, or remaining ones of the anointed, were still on the earthly scene. The number of children at their meetings had also greatly increased. Often the youngsters had simply been allowed to play while their parents studied. Yet, young people, too, needed to learn to “seek righteousness, seek meekness,” if they would be “hid in the day of the LORD’s anger.” (Zeph. 2:3, KJ) So, in 1918 the Society encouraged the congregations to arrange for a juvenile class for children from 8 to 15 years of age. In some places there were even primary classes for those too young to attend the juvenile class. At the same time, parental responsibility toward the children was again emphasized.

This led to other developments. The Golden Age, in 1920, carried a feature entitled “Juvenile Bible Study,” with questions accompanied by Scripture citations in which the answers could be found. That same year, The Golden Age ABC was published; it was an illustrated booklet for use by parents in teaching basic Bible truths and Christian qualities to their youngsters. A book entitled The Way to Paradise, written by W. E. Van Amburgh, followed in 1924. It was adapted to “intermediate students of the Bible.” For a time it was used at the meetings for younger ones. Additionally, in America, “Junior Witnesses” had their own arrangements for field service. In Switzerland a youth group formed an association called “Jehovah’s Youth,” for those between 13 and 25 years of age. They had their own secretary’s office in Berne, and a special magazine, Jehovah’s Youth, was edited and printed on the Society’s presses there. These youths had their own meetings and even put on Bible dramas, as they did in the Volkshaus in Zurich for an audience of 1,500.

What was taking place, however, was that an organization was developing within the organization of Jehovah’s servants. This would not contribute to unity, and it was discontinued in 1936. In April 1938, during a visit to Australia, J. F. Rutherford, the Society’s president, found that a class for children was being held apart from the convention for adults. He immediately arranged for all the children to be brought into the main convention, which was greatly to their benefit.

In that same year, The Watchtower reviewed the entire matter of separate classes for young folks in the congregation. That study again emphasized the fact that parents are responsible to instruct their own children. (Eph. 6:4; compare Deuteronomy 4:9, 10; Jeremiah 35:6-10.) It also showed that the Bible provides no precedent for segregating young ones by means of junior classes. Instead, they were to be present with their parents to hear God’s Word. (Deut. 31:12, 13; Josh. 8:34, 35) When further explanation of study material was needed, this could be given by the parents at home. Furthermore, the articles pointed out that arrangements for such separate classes were actually detracting from the house-to-house preaching of the good news. How so? Because the teachers were staying out of the field service to prepare for these classes and to conduct them. So, all separate classes for youths were discontinued.

Right down to the present, it remains the custom among Jehovah’s Witnesses for the entire family to attend congregation meetings together. Children are helped by their parents to prepare so that they can participate in appropriate ways. Additionally, a fine array of publications has been provided for parents to use in giving young folks instruction at home. Among these have been the books Children, in 1941; Listening to the Great Teacher, in 1971; Your Youth—Getting the Best Out Of It, in 1976; My Book of Bible Stories, in 1978; and Questions Young People Ask—Answers That Work, in 1989.

Here is what was published regarding how to handle children who " become boiusterous" and babies who "cry" during the two hour meetings that are taught at an adult level of understnading. The article was about husbands sometimes being the cause of why some wives become "spirituall weak".

3/1/88 Watchtower page 24-25

7 Do husbands always realize that taking care of a baby or a young child often prevents their wives from getting full benefit from the Congregation Book Study, Kingdom Hall meetings, circuit assemblies, and district conventions? Such a situation can last for months, and even years, when baby follows baby. It is in the nature of things that the load, in this respect, falls mainly on the mother, rather than on the father. It has sometimes been observed that whereas some Christian men progress spiritually, even to the point of being assigned privileges in the congregation, their wives become spiritually weak. Why? Often it is because their young children prevent the wives from concentrating at meetings, doing deep Bible study, or sharing in a large measure in the witnessing work. Can fatherhood be called responsible if it permits such situations to develop?

8 Fortunately, this is not always the case. Many Christian fathers do their utmost to share the load of looking after the children. They take their full share in seeing that their children remain quiet during congregation meetings. If their baby starts to cry, or their child becomes boisterous, they in their turn will take it outside for appropriate discipline. Why should mother always be the one to lose parts of the meetings? At home, considerate husbands help their wives with the chores and in getting the children to bed so that husband and wife can sit down to concentrate quietly on spiritual matters.

QUESTIONS

7. What has happened to some Christian wives, and what is often the cause of this situation?

8. How do many fathers share the load of looking after the children, with what benefit to their wives?

I looked back at articles STUDIED in the Watchtowers and was sickened by what these children and babies were expected to sit through. There is NO WAY they could have comprehended any of what was being studied.

I do remember so clearly as if it were yesterday, children ( as young as ONE YEAR OLD! ) being taken downstairs and being slapped over and over on their bare skin for simply crying or squirming/not sitting still enough. I saw it going on ALL THE TIME during meetings. I used to hurry back upstairs if I were downstairs and a parent would come down the stairs holding their hand tightly over their crying child's mouth. The child KNEW what was going to happen to them. I could see the sheer fear in the children's eyes. I was young at the time. I wish adults would have spoken up and done something stop it. If I were still in the JW sect, I find myself calling DCYF to see if I could get someone to attend meetings for a few weeks, under the guise of being an "interested one", with a hidden camera. My personal opinion of what I witnessed over and over again in the Pawtucket RI congregation throughout the 1970s crossed over the line of dicipline. It was child abuse by all means. I truly hope the situation has changed. But somehow, I tend do doubt it has.

It was very nice meeting you yesterday at the NE apostefest

peace,

somebody/gwen

15

JW's and Mormons (again!)

by figureheaduk in

a few days back i started a thread called "jw's and mormons", which seemed to get a few replies.

however, whenever i tried to open the thread i kept getting one of those horrible "error" screens that seemed to have been plaguing the forum recently.

now it seems as if the thread has gone for good.. the original questions i asked were along the lines of.

somebody

Hi figureheaduk,

I started resaerching cults a few years after leaving the JW sect back in the mid eighties. not so much their doctrine, but what "groups" were considered to be cults. At my local public library, Mormons and JWs were both listed as cults in every history/reference book I found, even the ones copyrighted back in the late 40s-early 50s. I only researched what were cults because of my fear of being sucked back into a cult. I hear it's very common for people to exit one cult, only to jump into another one. That is what I feared i would do, yet didn't know what church to attend, because at the same time, I wanted a place to go to serve God and have some christian fellowship.

From what I've read of the Mormon sect, it is EXACTLY the same as far as using threats as a method of damage control. They have the same "stages" of punishment for disagreeing with leaders teachings such as being marked, publicly reproved, privately reproved, and disfellowshipped. They just use a few different terms for the punishments, but they are equal to the JWs terminolgy of such. They also consider anone who leaves because they might disagree with their teachings or rules to treat others by, as being wicked apostates from God, and are to be hated the same way the WBTS teach it's adherents to hate. And the same steps to prove what is in ones heart who wishes to go back to be reisnsted to the
"love" of their "family". Also, they are encouraged not to independently think outside the group, as JWs are. And as someone said already, their origin came from to men who were masons and were the same type of dictators.

Ther are PLENTY of ex Mormon discussion boards and pleny of support groups for those trying to exit the Mormon sect, just as the JW sect. There are the same horror stories about abused adherents being guilted into shutting up aboput it too. If you wish for some links, just let me know and I'll send some to you in your private message mail box.

peace,

somebody/gwen

18

POTENTIAL NEW NIGERIA-STYLE EMAIL SCAM

by mustang in

last week i got two emails from "russian businessmen".

they are complaining about the difficulty of doing business, due to the high taxes there.

so, they suggest a "workaround": they need to find people to privately ship merchandise to them.

somebody

And here is a strange one I got today:

---------------------------------------

ATTN: Please.

With due respect and to the glory of ALMIGHTY
GOD whom we worship i call upon you to assist and
Please Permit me to inform you of my desire of going
into business relationship with you.

I got your name and contact from the Ivoirian chamber of
commerce and industry.

I prayed over it and selected your name Among other names
due to its esteeming nature and there recommendations given
to me as a reputable and trust person that I can do
business with and by the recommendation , I must not
hesitate to confide in you for this simple and sincere
business.

I AM MR Philip Kouame The only son of late Chief. Johnson Boua My father
was a very wealthy cocoa merchant in Abidjan but
we are Ghananian and I and my Family are here for about 20
year (twenty years)the capital City of Cote d'Ivoire.

My father was poisoned to death by his business
associates on one of their outings on a business trip.

My mother died when I was a baby and since then my father
took me so special. Before his death on (18 January 2002)
in a private hospital here in Abidjan he secretly called me
on his bed side and told me that he has the sum of eleven
million,five hundred thousand United State Dollars.

(US$(11.5m) left in fixed /suspense account in one of the
prime bank here in Abidjan ,that he used my name as his
only son for the next of Kin in depositing of the fund.

He also explained to me that it was because of this wealth
that he was poisoned by his business associates.

That I should seek for a foreign partner in a country of my
choice where i will transfer this money and use it for
investment purpose such as real estate management or hotel
management.

Dear, I am honourably seeking your assistance in the
following ways:

(1) To provide a bank account into which this money
would be transferred to.

(2) To serve as a guardian of this fund since I am
only 22 years.

(3) To make arrangement for me to come over to your
country to further my Education and to secure a
resident permit in your country.

More over, dear I am willing to offer you 15% of the
total sum as compensation for your effort/input after
the successful transfer of this fund into
your nominated account overseas.

Further more, you indicate your options towards
assisting me as I believe that this transaction would
be concluded within seven (7) days you signify
interest to assist me.

Anticipating to hear from you today.

Thanks and God bless.

Best regards,

PHILIP KOUAME

29

Disussion with JWs re: ONE mediator

by somebody in

i'm just posting this here for lurking jws to think about, and perhaps come foreward and explain their thoughts to us here on jwd.com

2/1/98 wt page 17. .

16 israel not only was a kingdom but also had an anointed priesthood.

somebody

And I'd like to add some scriptures in response to what DJ is saying.

Matthew 15 : 7-9 (NWT)

7

YOU hypocrites, Isaiah aptly prophesied about YOU, when he said, 8 ‘This people honors me with their lips, yet their heart is far removed from me. 9 It is in vain that they keep worshiping me, because they teach commands of men as doctrines.’" 10 With that he called the crowd near and said to them: "Listen and get the sense of it: 11 Not what enters into [his] mouth defiles a man; but it is what proceeds out of [his] mouth that defiles a man."

So was Jesus telling the Pharisses that they were guilty of "worshipping" Him, or that they were guilty of "lip service"?

29

Disussion with JWs re: ONE mediator

by somebody in

i'm just posting this here for lurking jws to think about, and perhaps come foreward and explain their thoughts to us here on jwd.com

2/1/98 wt page 17. .

16 israel not only was a kingdom but also had an anointed priesthood.

somebody

Will Power,

Thank you providing the link to Lady Lee's post. What a profound post she made. It gave me goose bumps reading it because it's SO true.

It leads me to so many thoughts about what JWs who have been handed over to satan/Disfellowshipped too. I don't know who feel worse or hang their heads lower? Active JWs or df'd JWs who believe that they are worthless human beings.

Which is another subject.

But I hope all who read this thread take the time to read Lady Lee's post.

I thank you again Will Power, and I thank you Lady Lee if you happen to read this post.

peace,

gwen

29

Disussion with JWs re: ONE mediator

by somebody in

i'm just posting this here for lurking jws to think about, and perhaps come foreward and explain their thoughts to us here on jwd.com

2/1/98 wt page 17. .

16 israel not only was a kingdom but also had an anointed priesthood.

somebody

. By extension, I benefit from the new covenant. BY WHAT EXTENSION? Is that extension fellow humans? A Higher Priest than Jesus? You can't have it both ways. Either the ransom ( Jesus' shed blood ) is your extension/mediator to God, or he isn't. There is NO kinda sorta here. Unless you are agreeing with the Wathtower INC's GB. The Bible says that there is only ONE mediator, or extension as you word it. So you either claim to follow the Bible or the Watchtower Society. You can serve two masters if that is what you choose to do, but you'll have a hell of time trying to do so. You'll have to keep it a secret to one, that you are following the other. That is not easy on your soul.

29

Disussion with JWs re: ONE mediator

by somebody in

i'm just posting this here for lurking jws to think about, and perhaps come foreward and explain their thoughts to us here on jwd.com

2/1/98 wt page 17. .

16 israel not only was a kingdom but also had an anointed priesthood.

somebody

Hi wednesday,

i told my husband about this, and he said "then why do we pray "in jesus name"? He said they did not say that or i must have misundrestood.
A lot of JWS don't really know what the WTS teaches .

I agree that JWs do not know what they are supposed to SAY that their human leaders/WT teach. I've come to the conclusion that for every question you ask them, thee are TWO opposite answers printed by the WTS by there play on words. ONE answer for the public, ONE answer for INSIDERS. That is why the WT teach their own followers to direct interested ones " from INITIAL CONTACT" to the organization, and tell it's own followers that they may be able to locate scriptures, but that's about it. Forget trying to explain their beliefs and backing those beliefs up with scriptures in THEIR OWN WORDS. The WT make sure that their followers STAY in the doublethink/confusion state of mind at all time. And they've been taught NOT TO independently think/think for themselves and make up their own minds on what they believe. That helps me to TRY to understand why they can't explain what they believe. I have talked to one years ago who stated what he believed YEARS ago. Even though his words did NOT GO against Watchtower dogma, he still felt the need to add a discalimer to cover his own butt from the wrath of the Watchtower INC. peace, gwen

29

Disussion with JWs re: ONE mediator

by somebody in

i'm just posting this here for lurking jws to think about, and perhaps come foreward and explain their thoughts to us here on jwd.com

2/1/98 wt page 17. .

16 israel not only was a kingdom but also had an anointed priesthood.

somebody

Will Power,

Can you put a link in here to Lady Lee's, thread? I miss so many topics and threads only because traffic is so heavy here.

29

Disussion with JWs re: ONE mediator

by somebody in

i'm just posting this here for lurking jws to think about, and perhaps come foreward and explain their thoughts to us here on jwd.com

2/1/98 wt page 17. .

16 israel not only was a kingdom but also had an anointed priesthood.

somebody

DJ,

So you are saying that Jesus is your mediator in a Non-strict bible sense. Oh. I suppose that next you will show us the scriptures that say that Jesus is a sort of, kind of like mediator angel named Michael.

Ask a JW to describe it and they won't use those two words ( kind and sorta ) but that IS what they are saying. As long as SordofJah says that Jesus is his ONE mediator, and BELIEVES THAT,then I'm happy that that it his or her belief. I'm just sad that he or she can't publicly speak if he were a JW that because he'll be accused of being an apostate of God if he right out said that the GB of the Watchtower Inc./faithful and discreet slave have NO mediatorship between people and God.

And I suppose SwordOfJah would have to expalin the difference between "strict Bible sense" and "non-strict Bible sense".

I'm just happy that he feels Jesus is his ONE mediator and therefore does not NEED to be assoicaited with the Watchtower INC. to render sacred service to God and to pray to God.