Posts by SwordOfJah

138

Ray Franz.....LIAR?

by integ in

one of my witness family members agreed to take a look at crisis of conscience, and after.

perusing the first couple of chapters, said that she thought it could be all made up.

agreed that the documents presented could be legitimate, but as far as franz's personal.

SwordOfJah

It does seem that you do remember what was said, without having written it down. Please feel free to inform us what their ‘take’ was on this situation.

I do remember, but I would like to have a word-for-word account. Unfortunately at the time, I did not think about these matters. I don't feel I would be believed if I just posted my memories of these conversations.

It may interest you to know that I have questioned one person on your list regarding the authenticity of Mr. Franz book some years ago.

Could you PM me and let me know who in the list you talked to. I know these brothers very well.

If the WTS pursued just one succesfull case of slander against any one of the people mentioned

Yes, I've read this argument before: If it's not true why don't they sue. But it's really silly to use that argument. The GB would have to make public private conversations, they would have to involve many people as witnesses. The personal attacks by these ex-JWs would begin. There really wouldn't be any solution. I asked one time brother Swingle, who was an awesome brother, why they never tried to stop Ray and his stories. If you knew brother Swingle, you know that he as very open and didn't beat around the bush. Anyway, he said that Ray could write whatever he wanted, but as Witnesses of Jehovah our job was to do his will and preach the good news, not go around suing former disgruntled members.

138

Ray Franz.....LIAR?

by integ in

one of my witness family members agreed to take a look at crisis of conscience, and after.

perusing the first couple of chapters, said that she thought it could be all made up.

agreed that the documents presented could be legitimate, but as far as franz's personal.

SwordOfJah

I have a question for Randy Waters and others....

I have read the testimony of what happened in the Ray Franz era from his book and also those posted at the Waters' site. These few testimonies are of those that left the organization.

Why is it that there is no testimony from Witnesses of that era that are still in the Organization? It shouldn't be hard to find and as many are still in Bethel. How about testimony from Harold Jackson, Liverance, Baltasar Perla, Karl Adams, Joel Adams, D. Mercante, Robert Wallen, and David Olson. I have had the pleasure of asking some questions to these brothers about what went on duing the 1979-1980 era in Bethel. They're point of view of the matters is very interesting. Unfortunately, I never wrote this information down. But someone should be able to do an interview with these brothers about their recollections. Only by having both sides of a story, can you honestly come to a conclusion.

5

SOLA SCRIPTURA

by Ravyn in

some of this post is taken from another one, but i thought it deserved its own thread.. jws hate the catholic church so much, that it is unfair to automatically assume that what the jws have claimed against it(and to some extent the whole protestant movement has claimed--altho after 500 years it has lost some of the sharper edges).

the church who's council put together the bible was just as much a part of the protestants as it was of catholics, since the protestants came from the catholics.

don't fall into the same trap jws set of changing history...the protestants did not always exist as an oppositional force to the catholics.

SwordOfJah

JWs hate the Catholic Church so much, that it is unfair to automatically assume that what the JWs have claimed against it

Wouldn't this statement apply also to ex-JWs talking against JWs?

48

A question for Sword of Jah

by AwakenedAndFree in

jw
friends

dear sword of jah, .

please explain to me this watchtower doctrine, which still stands today as a revealed truth from the faithful and discreet slave class revealed in 1935 still taught today: .

judge rutherford, representing the watchtower society announced in 1935 in a convention that the doors to heaven were shut down in 1935, and the gathering of the annointed class was accomplished in 1935. .

SwordOfJah

Those are excellent scriptures that you quote. It's not like I start a conversation when I go door to door about the 1930's. I preach to people in the territory about Jehovah, his right as our sovereign ruler, about Jesus and what his ransom sacrifice means to all of us, and also about Jehovah's promises for the future. These CAN be proven with the Bible. So I AM following Jesus' footsteps and instructions, while you spend time crying and stomping over the 1930's and whether or not the number of annointed were completed at that time.

48

A question for Sword of Jah

by AwakenedAndFree in

jw
friends

dear sword of jah, .

please explain to me this watchtower doctrine, which still stands today as a revealed truth from the faithful and discreet slave class revealed in 1935 still taught today: .

judge rutherford, representing the watchtower society announced in 1935 in a convention that the doors to heaven were shut down in 1935, and the gathering of the annointed class was accomplished in 1935. .

SwordOfJah

If you disagree, you are DF'd

That's not intirely true. You can disagree all you want and your won't get disfellowshipped. A judicial committee is formed when you start preaching your beliefs publically and causing divisions within the congregation. I remember when I was a ministerial servant, I was talking to a family member that served as an elder and I was telling him of something that I disapproved about the body of elders in my congregation. He said something wise to me: "I understand your viewpoint but you have to learn when to talk and when to be quiet. Talk when Jehovah gives you the authority to talk, that will be when you become an elder."

48

A question for Sword of Jah

by AwakenedAndFree in

jw
friends

dear sword of jah, .

please explain to me this watchtower doctrine, which still stands today as a revealed truth from the faithful and discreet slave class revealed in 1935 still taught today: .

judge rutherford, representing the watchtower society announced in 1935 in a convention that the doors to heaven were shut down in 1935, and the gathering of the annointed class was accomplished in 1935. .

SwordOfJah

It's not a prophesy. It is believed that the heavenly calling ended in the 1930's. This is the new phrase used in current publications instead of dogmatically saying 1935. This belief is based on the events of the convention where Rutherford explained the new interpretation of the meaning of the other sheep. I believe it went something like "those that are from the other sheep" stand up. I think that's what happened if my recollection is true. Most of the attendees stood up showing that most of the new Witnesses in that era were of the other sheep. But to answer your question directly: No, it cannot be proved Biblically that all the annointed were selected by the 1930's. It is just an assumption based on the history of the Organization.

13

WTS, Judicial Committe's and WTS Apologists.

by hillary_step in

jw
friends

in a recent thread in which i corresponded with swordof jah regarding the wts and its judicial committee arrangement, the following discource took place :

sword wrote :

you obviously think a lot of yourself.

SwordOfJah

hillary-step:

Again, you have presented very interesting information. I was wrong on this one, but don't let it get around that I admitted it.

48

A question for Sword of Jah

by AwakenedAndFree in

jw
friends

dear sword of jah, .

please explain to me this watchtower doctrine, which still stands today as a revealed truth from the faithful and discreet slave class revealed in 1935 still taught today: .

judge rutherford, representing the watchtower society announced in 1935 in a convention that the doors to heaven were shut down in 1935, and the gathering of the annointed class was accomplished in 1935. .

SwordOfJah

The point is that JWs did not prophesy, they were trying to understand a prophesy that is already written in the Bible.

18

Sword of Jah: Re:Omitted Scriptures - NWT has no footnote explanations.Why?

by AwakenedAndFree in

jw
friends

dear sword of jah:.

the watchtower society omitted the following scriptures from their new world translation bible without a footnote explanation to readers explaining the reason of omission.

here are the missing scriptures - i'am referring only to the ones i know - there may be more: .

SwordOfJah

Wow, you must have put a lot of thought into that issue. I'm impressed with your criticism

48

A question for Sword of Jah

by AwakenedAndFree in

jw
friends

dear sword of jah, .

please explain to me this watchtower doctrine, which still stands today as a revealed truth from the faithful and discreet slave class revealed in 1935 still taught today: .

judge rutherford, representing the watchtower society announced in 1935 in a convention that the doors to heaven were shut down in 1935, and the gathering of the annointed class was accomplished in 1935. .

SwordOfJah

You are erronously spinning this the wrong way. JWs did not prophesy, Jesus prophesied and he does not lie. The prophesy and truth was there all along. JWs are simply trying to understand the prophesy. Like the apostles of Jesus that did not understand all of Jesus words until it was time for it to be revealed. The same happens in this modern days. The understanding or the meaning of the prophesy that Jesus prophesied was not accurate. After careful analysis of that prophesy, a clarification was published.