There always has to be a moron that tries to end discussions here by calling me a troll, instead of following the discussion and allowing other posters to state their opinions.
SwordOfJah
JoinedPosts by SwordOfJah
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108
The Judicial Committee
by minimus inhave you ever been called before one?
were you ever on one?
what happened???
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108
The Judicial Committee
by minimus inhave you ever been called before one?
were you ever on one?
what happened???
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SwordOfJah
I did see your page. A bit confusing, but all I see are insults directed to the elders that handled your case. But if you talk in person as you write, I think you are better off outside the organization, for you and for the brothers. Psalms says the the meek shall inherit the Earth.
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108
The Judicial Committee
by minimus inhave you ever been called before one?
were you ever on one?
what happened???
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SwordOfJah
core: Forgive me for not replying about the Holy Spirit question. The Holy Spirit does guide the elders as long as they are basing their decisions on the scriptures. For example, the holy spirit would not just pop a decision on the case into the elders' mind, but could guide the elder to a particular scripture or publication that sheds light on the case.
minimus: To be truthful to your question, yes I would. But let me clarify that I don't have a problem with my brothers having their own thoughts or views. The problem is when they publicize their views in order to influence others, thus causing divisions and confusion within the congregation. These division retract from our duty of preaching the good news as it weakens the individuals spirit. For example, I have my own views on certain matters, but I am not dogmatic nor do I try to preach my own views to the congregation. I allow the F&DS to do it's job. I don't try to get one step ahead of them. On things that they are not clear on, nor I am, I allow Jehovah to reveal at his own due time and I don't try to get ahead of him.
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12
Two Witnesses Rule hypocrisy
by confusedjw inisn't it interesting that if two people see someone leaving someone?s house at 5am, thus they stayed all night, that is grounds for dfing.
(see elder's book)
yet, when a child says something happened - even if it can be verified that the person was alone with the child at the time - unless there are two witnesses to the actual crime nothing can happen in the way of dfing.
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SwordOfJah
I am not able to justify the actions you refer to either. I cannot though use this version to attack the decisions made by the branch as the whole story is not known. It's hard for me to see how the elders deliberated the case or what information they gave to the Branch office for them to determine a decision. The only thing I can see is the amount of time that transpired between cases, so most definetely a completely different set of elders handled the last judicial case. These elders obviously did the right thing by finally disfellowshipping this individual.
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108
The Judicial Committee
by minimus inhave you ever been called before one?
were you ever on one?
what happened???
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SwordOfJah
core: From your point of view, my statement could be revealing. For me, because I have faith and believe in Jehovah's arrangement for a FD&S class, it is not revealing. I see the arrangement as a whole and not based on individual examples. By this, I do acknowledge that some elders will not even follow the guidelines set by the FD&S. In extreme and unusual cases as such, I turned over control to Jesus, for he is the head of the congregations. Of course, I would not like to be in the shoes of those elders. I can only speak form my point of view and in the judicial cases that I've been involved in, I have seen that the arrangement works. One think I do want to add is that I have not been involved in a judicial case where the person is accused of apostacy. Those cases can be difficult because the person accused of apostacy usually does not think he did anything wrong. Most cases I've been involved in involved immorality.
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JW cleared of rape
by Earnest inas reported in the cambridge (uk) evening news, september 2, 2004, page 17:.
a jehovah's witness accused of raping a 13-year-old has been acquitted by a jury.. jon hines had described the rape allegations as "farcical".. mr hines, formerly of kingston close, huntingdon, and now living in lowestoft, said his 20-year marriage had ended in divorce mainly because he had been unable to make love to his wife for several years as a result of prostrate problems.. the 61-year-old had denied three charges of raping the girl while she was visiting his lowestoft home in 2002.. .
although one of the guidelines for posting on this forum is not to add the same comment more than once, i am opening a subsequent thread to the newspaper report on the trial as his acquittal should receive no less publicity than the original allegations.. in my opinion, this trial is a cautionary note to the much criticised two-witness rule.
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SwordOfJah
Thank you Earnest for your balanced view on this case and for posting the results of the case.
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12
Two Witnesses Rule hypocrisy
by confusedjw inisn't it interesting that if two people see someone leaving someone?s house at 5am, thus they stayed all night, that is grounds for dfing.
(see elder's book)
yet, when a child says something happened - even if it can be verified that the person was alone with the child at the time - unless there are two witnesses to the actual crime nothing can happen in the way of dfing.
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SwordOfJah
It is a good point and one I had not thought of. I would always tend to believe a child because of their innocence in regards to sexual matters. I believe the problem is when an adult comes forward and accuses someone of an abuse that allegedly happened many years before. It is very hard to know what the truth is, specially when someone all of sudden remembers the abuse. I was involved in an investigation where a sister accused her father of abuse. At the time, she was 40 years old and was suffering from bipolar. During our interview with her, she said that she had not taken her medicine for several weeks. We recommended to her husband that he take her to a doctor immediately. A few days later she said that what she had accused her father of was a lie. She was very sorry and could not understand why she would have made such an accusation. We talked about depression. We did not pursue a judicial case against her since we came to the conclusion that without her medicine she had no control of what she was thinking. Sad case, but it goes to show what can happen in some cases.
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108
The Judicial Committee
by minimus inhave you ever been called before one?
were you ever on one?
what happened???
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SwordOfJah
I'm not trying to fool anyone minimus, just stating what the third option is.
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108
The Judicial Committee
by minimus inhave you ever been called before one?
were you ever on one?
what happened???
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SwordOfJah
I want to add that there is also a third appeal process if the accused does not agree with the decision taken by the appeals committee. The third process involves the branch. The accused can then write a letter stating his case and the reason for disagreement to the Branch. The decision is then turned over to them.
Regarding the guidance of the holy spirit, you have to also add the human element. One example is Judas Iscariot. He was named with the guidance of the holy spirit to be an apostle. He was also guided as he ministered to Jesus, but he chose to not follow the guidance of the holy spirit when it came to treason. I will not sit here and say that mistakes are not made during judicial proceedings, but that is why there is three or four sitting on each judicial committee and why there is a an appeal process. This process might get mocked, but it works well in most decisions. I've been in judicial hearings were one of the elders wanted to disfellowship, and the other two reasoned with him that this would not be the right decision. They reasoned with their fellow elder by using the Bible and publications entitled "Determining weakness, wickedness, and repentance"
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108
The Judicial Committee
by minimus inhave you ever been called before one?
were you ever on one?
what happened???
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SwordOfJah
Although elders are guided by holy spirit, this does not mean that they are inspired when making their decisions. They are using Biblical guidelines. But these guidelines can sometimes be ignored, therefore, ignoring the guidance of the holy spirit. This is why there is an appeal process offered by the F&DS. This is to safeguard the rights that the accused has if he/she thinks the decision is not appropiate. I have been part of an appeal committee that overturned a brother's disfellowshipping. Instead we counseled the original committee on how to handle similar cases in the future and to remember not to take cases personal as if the wrong was done to us. The brothers humbly accepted our counsel and decision.