Posts by Saename

22

Being a Rude Jerk, It's Awesome!

by Simon in

maybe it's a british thing, but we tend to be polite.

too polite.. even if someone is inconsiderate, we apologize as though we did something wrong.. prime offenders?

people in supermarkets, specifically costco.. they have nice wide isles and yet somehow, for some reason, some idiot will find a way to put their trolley sideways and keep a hand on it while reaching for something, thus blocking the entire isle.. or another favorite ... you're going through the entrance and someone just stops, maybe to answer their phone.. how about you wait in a queue at a checkout for ages and when it's their turn, then they start looking for their purse.. how many times have you thought "idiot" or muttered under your breath?.

Saename

Image result for canada polite meme

Until Simon came around and ruined our reputation by telling a guy to move aside his shopping cart.

Bad Simon. We are so sorry. This is not us. We Canadians are always nice. Simon is the black sheep.

We are so so sorry for his extremism.

44

Thoughts on African Americans and Slavery

by Simon in

let's start by saying that slavery is of course a terrible thing, one of the worst crimes imaginable, and that "slavery" rarely implies good treatment, anything noble or defensible.

nowadays, even god doesn't escape judgement from our enlightened views with passages about slavery in the bible usually glossed over because they are shameful.. but not all slavery was equal.. because of the media, movie industry, racial tensions in the us regularly shown on the news and our taught history, i think most people's knowledge and idea of slavery is that of the north atlantic slave trade where white people took africans to work in cotton fields.

this idea is probably also re-enforced because the largest group of descendents of slaves we see today are african americans (usually in the us or places they subsequently migrated to).. but it's incomplete.. it's only when you look into it more that you discover that there was much more to the slave trade than that, otherwise it would have been just called "the slave trade" and not "the north atlantic slave trade".. some 12.5 million slaves were taken from africa to the us with just under 11 million surviving the trip so it obviously took a terrible toll immediately, even before any maltreatment once they landed in the americas where conditions and treatment were truly awful.

Saename

I also live in Canada, so I can comment on that as well.

In the city I live (the capital—Ottawa), there doesn't seem to be any race issues. As far as I have seen, black people are treated the same. There may be some unnecessary sensitivity towards racism, which once or twice has gotten me into trouble simply because I was misunderstood, but overall, it's all good as far as I can see.

However, as Simon has already mentioned, there is another type of racism here. Native Americans have additional rights and privileges. I've never complained about that, but in reality, I think it'd be much better if the privileges they get (such as post-secondary education funding) went to people who actually need them because of their financial situation, not because of their race.

Edit: When it comes to BLM, yeah, we don't have that. Not like the US. But some people are trying to start a fire for whatever reason...

20

Paul did not belittle women

by Doug Mason in

i note the recent post that quoted 1 timothy 2:11-12 and colossians 1:23 which place women at a level that is lower to men.

the poster accused paul of this mysoginy, but that is not correct.. 1 timothy, 2 timothy, titus, colossians, ephesians and hebrews were written after paul's death.. paul was not a mysoginist; he made full use of women in leadership roles.

he wrote that in god's sight there is neither male nor female, for all are one in god's sight.. doug.

Saename

LisaRose - What difference does it make who wrote those passages? It's still in the bible, allowed to be in the bible by God, if you believe the bible is inspired. Those words have been used for centuries to dominate and subjugate women, all in the name of God, and are still being used to this day by backwards religions like the JWs.

Right. To those of us who study the NT only from the historical perspective it's of great importance. (It's funny, but there are actually atheists who are interested in early Christianity for purely historical reasons. You'd think only Christians would be interested in these things, huh...) Nonetheless, whenever I debate Christians on these topics, I definitely use those misogynistic passages (and otherwise primitive verses) to criticise the allegedly divinely inspired Bible. It's only when I'm doing my historical studies that it becomes significant that Paul wasn't a misogynist. It's also fascinating because of how later Christians argued the role of women in Christianity. The "feminist" side used Paul's writings as much as the misogynistic side did. It's quite fascinating if one likes history.

But anyway, I agree with you that it's rather inconsequential when it comes to whether the Bible is divinely inspired.

20

Paul did not belittle women

by Doug Mason in

i note the recent post that quoted 1 timothy 2:11-12 and colossians 1:23 which place women at a level that is lower to men.

the poster accused paul of this mysoginy, but that is not correct.. 1 timothy, 2 timothy, titus, colossians, ephesians and hebrews were written after paul's death.. paul was not a mysoginist; he made full use of women in leadership roles.

he wrote that in god's sight there is neither male nor female, for all are one in god's sight.. doug.

Saename

waton, what are you saying exactly? That women should be below men because of biology, and because it has served the human race "well"?

How do you know how it would have served the human race if women were equal to men from the very beginning? You don't know, so I don't think you can claim that the role of women has served us "well."

9

Evolution is a Fact Series Index So Far.

by cofty in

i will resume this series soon.. #1 protein functional redundancy comparing the sequences of amino acids in ubiquitous proteins confirms the relationship between all living things..

#2 dna functional redundancy comparison of the dna that codes for the amino acids of ubiquitous proteins predicts the tree of life with an astonishing degree of accuracy..

#3 ervs endogenous retroviruses that infected our ancestors are found in the same place of the genome of our closest primate cousins..

Saename

Holy crap! I didn't even know you were writing a series about evolution!

Bookmarked. Definitely bookmarked.

20

Paul did not belittle women

by Doug Mason in

i note the recent post that quoted 1 timothy 2:11-12 and colossians 1:23 which place women at a level that is lower to men.

the poster accused paul of this mysoginy, but that is not correct.. 1 timothy, 2 timothy, titus, colossians, ephesians and hebrews were written after paul's death.. paul was not a mysoginist; he made full use of women in leadership roles.

he wrote that in god's sight there is neither male nor female, for all are one in god's sight.. doug.

Saename

slimboyfat - Was 1 Cor 11:3 written by Paul?

Some do indeed argue that this passage is an interpolation, but it's a minority view. Most likely it was written by Paul.

waton - was 1Cor. 14: 33-38 written by "Paul" ?

That (1 Cor. 14.34–35) is an interpolation. Firstly, vv 34–35 tell women to be silent, but that was not Paul's position. He, in his epistle to the Romans, names a female minister in Cenchreae (Phoebe—Rom. 16.1) and a female apostle in Rome (Junia—Rom. 16.7). Additionally, he already mentions in the very same epistle—1 Cor. 11.5—that women can indeed speak up in church (and prophesy) but need to wear head-covering.

Secondly, this passage about women disrupts the flow of the chapter. Before vv 34–35, Paul is talking about prophecy, and indeed, he also talks about prophecy even after these two verses. This passage about women simply appears out of nowhere. Hence, it's a majority view that this is an interpolation.

Doug Mason - Paul was not a mysoginist; he made full use of women in leadership roles. He wrote that in God's sight there is neither male nor female, for all are one in God's sight.

Agreed. One can criticise Christians who claim that the New Testament itself is divinely inspired while it contains misogynistic passages, but Paul himself can hardly be called a misogynist. He definitely wasn't as progressive as we are today (telling women to wear head-coverings in 1 Cor. 11.5 for instance), but calling him a misogynist is a bit too much.

3rdgen - If God inspired the Bible, why didn't he prevent confusion as to exactly what the message is. Why would he allow passages or books to be included that don't belong?

That's one of my objections against the Christian God as well. It doesn't make sense to me.

8

Jesus is Lord...as in Jehovah god...in Reference NWT

by NikL in

i wish i could say i found this but i saw it in a vid from watchtower examination.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vk7ertncbsk.

in it he points out that in the reference bible used by jws they admit that jesus and jehovah are the same thing.. so i looked it up online on jw.org.

yep it's there.. 1 peter 3:15. but sanctify the christ as lord* in your hearts,+ always ready to make a defense+ before everyone that demands of you a reason for the hope in you, but doing so together with a mild temper+ and deep respect.*.

Saename

Yes, a textual variant is a different version of the same text. Most Bibles do not use the word "God" in 1 Peter 3.15 but the word "Christ." But then again, it should be noted that plenty of Bibles come from mainstream Christians who accept Jesus as God, so it makes no difference to them.

20

How can the WTS call themselves Christians when they have no Christian church?

by TTWSYF in

so was jesus a fool or a liar?

he said that his church would last all ages, didn't he?.

math 16:8and i say to thee: that thou art peter; and upon this rock i will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Saename

According to the Dictionary of Fairies,

Christianity – the ability to bend backwards

If you claim to be Christian, you're Christian, yo.

8

Jesus is Lord...as in Jehovah god...in Reference NWT

by NikL in

i wish i could say i found this but i saw it in a vid from watchtower examination.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vk7ertncbsk.

in it he points out that in the reference bible used by jws they admit that jesus and jehovah are the same thing.. so i looked it up online on jw.org.

yep it's there.. 1 peter 3:15. but sanctify the christ as lord* in your hearts,+ always ready to make a defense+ before everyone that demands of you a reason for the hope in you, but doing so together with a mild temper+ and deep respect.*.

Saename

NikL, you are misinterpreting the footnote. The footnote does not say Jesus is Jehovah. The footnote is acknowledging that there is another textual variant of the Greek text which says, "but in your hearts sanctify God as Lord" as opposed to "but in your hearts sanctify Christ as Lord." Let me translate the two textual variants for you so it is easier:

TEXTUAL VARIANT #1

Κύριον δὲ τὸν Χριστὸν ἁγιάσατε ἐν ταῖς καρδίαις ὑμῶν, ἕτοιμοι ἀεὶ πρὸς ἀπολογίαν παντὶ τῷ αἰτοῦντι ὑμᾶς λόγον περὶ τῆς ἐν ὑμῖν ἐλπίδος.

[...] moreover, sanctify in your hearts Christ [christos] as Lord. Always be ready to make a defense to anyone who is asking you for an account concerning the hope that is in you.

This textual variant is talking about Christ. It's clear because it contains the word christos. It calls Christ "Lord."

TEXTUAL VARIANT #2

Κύριον δὲ τὸν Θεὸν ἁγιάσατε ἐν ταῖς καρδίαις ὑμῶν· ἕτοιμοι δὲ ἀεὶ πρὸς ἀπολογίαν παντὶ τῷ αἰτοῦντι ὑμᾶς λόγον περὶ τῆς ἐν ὑμῖν ἐλπίδος, μετά πραΰτητος καί φόβου

[...] moreover, sanctify in your hearts God [theon] as Lord. Always be ready to make a defense with gentleness and fear to anyone who is asking you for an account concerning the hope that is in you.

This textual variant is not talking about Christ. It does not contain the word christos; it contains the word theon, and as such, it refers to Yahweh. It says, "sanctify in your hearts God as Lord."

So this footnote...

“The Christ as Lord,” אABC; TR, “the Lord God”; J7,8,11-14,16,17,24, “Jehovah God.”

...means that there is one textual variant which reads, "Christ as Lord," and there is also a second textual variant which reads, "God as Lord." The footnote does not equate Jehovah God to Christ. It is merely acknowledging that there are two different textual variants—one refers to Christ, and the other to God.

8

Jesus is Lord...as in Jehovah god...in Reference NWT

by NikL in

i wish i could say i found this but i saw it in a vid from watchtower examination.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vk7ertncbsk.

in it he points out that in the reference bible used by jws they admit that jesus and jehovah are the same thing.. so i looked it up online on jw.org.

yep it's there.. 1 peter 3:15. but sanctify the christ as lord* in your hearts,+ always ready to make a defense+ before everyone that demands of you a reason for the hope in you, but doing so together with a mild temper+ and deep respect.*.

Saename

It's because of the difference in the Greek texts. There are two main variations:

Κύριον (kyrion meaning Lord) δὲ τὸν Χριστὸν (christon meaning Christ) ἁγιάσατε ἐν ταῖς καρδίαις ὑμῶν, ἕτοιμοι ἀεὶ πρὸς ἀπολογίαν παντὶ τῷ αἰτοῦντι ὑμᾶς λόγον περὶ τῆς ἐν ὑμῖν ἐλπίδος,

Κύριον (kyrion meaning Lord) δὲ τὸν Θεὸν (theon meaning God) ἁγιάσατε ἐν ταῖς καρδίαις ὑμῶν· ἕτοιμοι δὲ ἀεὶ πρὸς ἀπολογίαν παντὶ τῷ αἰτοῦντι ὑμᾶς λόγον περὶ τῆς ἐν ὑμῖν ἐλπίδος, μετά πραΰτητος καί φόβου

The first one contains two titles "Κύριον" and "Χριστὸν" which mean Lord Christ.

The second one contains two titles "Κύριον" and "Θεὸν" which together mean Lord God. This one also doesn't have the word "Χριστὸν".

Whether you translate the verse as "Lord Christ" (or Christ as Lord) or "Lord God" depends on which Greek text you're using. NRSV uses the first variation and therefore translates to "Christ as Lord.

Edit: This is to say that when the JW Bible with references has "Jehovah God" in the footnote, it does not refer to Jesus.