Posts by Saename

58

Non JW wife/JW husband Christmas tree debate

by spacegirl443 in

jw
friends

first post here and looking for advice and help.

sorry in advance for it being so long :(.

i'm a happily married woman (no kids) who is a non-jw, presbyterian to be precise.

Saename

You can only put up the Christmas tree in your office/spare bedroom? That seems ridiculous to me, but if it works for you... you do you, I do me.

25

In theory, can one be disfellowshipped for attempted suicide?

by Saename in

so i was recently reading the reasons for disfellowshipping as listed in shepherd the flock of god.

the handbook is available online here: https://thetruthofjehowaswittness.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/jehovas-vitner.pdf.. on page 59, point #4, it lists attempted suicide as a reason for disfellowshipping.

has it ever been removed?

Saename

I don't drink coffee :>

25

In theory, can one be disfellowshipped for attempted suicide?

by Saename in

so i was recently reading the reasons for disfellowshipping as listed in shepherd the flock of god.

the handbook is available online here: https://thetruthofjehowaswittness.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/jehovas-vitner.pdf.. on page 59, point #4, it lists attempted suicide as a reason for disfellowshipping.

has it ever been removed?

Saename

Finkelstein - Who needs the bible after all when you have the Bible written 2000 years ago.

I think what you meant to say is, "Who needs the knowledge of psychology after all when you have the Bible written 2000 years ago."

25

In theory, can one be disfellowshipped for attempted suicide?

by Saename in

so i was recently reading the reasons for disfellowshipping as listed in shepherd the flock of god.

the handbook is available online here: https://thetruthofjehowaswittness.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/jehovas-vitner.pdf.. on page 59, point #4, it lists attempted suicide as a reason for disfellowshipping.

has it ever been removed?

Saename

So I was recently reading the reasons for disfellowshipping as listed in Shepherd the Flock of God. The handbook is available online here: https://thetruthofjehowaswittness.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/jehovas-vitner.pdf.

On page 59, point #4, it lists attempted suicide as a reason for disfellowshipping. Has it ever been removed? Have the Jehovah's Witnesses added some hand-written notes to this point? I noticed they sometimes do that as commanded by the letters from the Watchtower. So I think the most important question is this: In theory, can one still be disfellowshipped for attempted suicide?

If so, I imagine there are certain precautions taken so that they can't be sued. For example, I noticed that they don't call these reasons "reasons for disfellowshipping" but rather "reasons for forming a judicial committee." Even though the two seem to be the same?

35

Polish EX-JW Activism compilation video

by WTS Archive in

i'd like to show you a short video i made about exjw activism in poland.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vt3qdtyxgd8.

i'm one of the people responsible for those information campaigns/protests, so you can ask me anything you like.

there's a lot i didn't show on the video because of the limited time i have for editing, i have tons of footage more.

Saename

darkspliver - Britain has seen 13 consecutive years of increase in average publishers reporting.
Over the last 13 years Britain has seen the ratio of publishers-to-population go from 1-in-456 to 1-in-471.

When you say there was an increase in average publishers reporting, do you mean that more publishers report, or that publishers report more hours? Most likely the latter since the second statement actually demonstrates a decrease in the number of publishers in Britain, assuming that the first mentioned ratio was reported before the second mentioned ratio.

Edit: The second statement actually could also demonstrate that there are simply more people in Britain... so as you said, "lies, damned lies, and statistics."

34

Today's W.T when it mentioned Depression and Anxiety

by Isambard Crater in

our co-ordinator put his hand up and commented saying that people who go on about how depressed or anxious they are just need to stop giving in to impulses and show more self control without letting their emotions rule their lives.. if anyone from the media, a government agency or some other public body heard a comment like that, they'd have a hard time exercising self control over the rubbish this elder spouted, which my friends and family with genuine depression found insulting..

Saename

I have depression and anxiety. It has nothing to do with self-control. I'm not sure what else I can say... His comment is just utterly stupid. It's best to ignore that, although if I personally witnessed that, I would probably come up to him after the meeting just to say... something :)

11

American JWs - Marriage in Foreign Countries

by NeverKnew in

jw
friends

as a non-jw, i now know of at least 3 american jws who have left the country, married some random person in a third world country and who have returned to the us alone.

there may be a 4th one soon.. it could be pure coincidence, but just thought i’d throw it out there to see if there’s some bizarre jw logic to this .

i’m no longer close enough to the group to hear any details so... could be purely coincidence.

Saename

Coincidence? I've never heard of anything like this... I wouldn't be surprised if most elders actually condemned this kind of thing. "Oh, the end is coming, and you're going to a third-world-country to marry someone? Just focus on preaching..."

I mean, there was a thread a few days ago (though it could've been on Reddit) about how someone was condemned by the elders and the congregation at large for going abroad to volunteer and help some refugees instead of preaching...

Though it is a strange kind of coincidence... Maybe it's the entire congregation that's insane?

12

Important Question about Bible Examiner Vol. XXI No. 1 (whole No. 313), October 1876, pages 27, 28

by Saename in

so i was just comparing several quotes from different watchtower publications related to 1914. in my experience, pre–1914 publications point to this year as the end, and post–1914 publications point to this year as the start of the last days.

so i was reading awake!

from 1973 january 22 p. 8 where it claims that jehovah's witnesses have always pointed to year 1914 as the beginning of the last days.

Saename

So I was just comparing several quotes from different Watchtower publications related to 1914. In my experience, pre–1914 publications point to this year as the end, and post–1914 publications point to this year as the start of the last days. So I was reading Awake! from 1973 January 22 p. 8 where it claims that Jehovah's Witnesses have always pointed to year 1914 as the beginning of the last days. The evidence that I've been able to find falsifies that statement—with possibly one exception, and I'd like someone to explain this to me.

In this quote from Awake!, there's a footnote, on the same page, saying that Bible Examiner (see issue in title) supports their claim that Jehovah's Witnesses have always believed 1914 to be the start of the last days.

So I read a portion of this issue of Bible Examiner(https://ia801408.us.archive.org/30/items/1876BibleExaminer/1876_Bible_Examiner_Russell.pdf), and I think I noticed something strange about this... Bible Examiner does indeed point to 1914 as the end of the Gentile Times (as do Jehovah's Witnesses today), but it seems like Russell used this expression "the end of the Gentile Times" differently than modern JWs use it today? Today, JWs claim that the end of the Gentile Times is when Jesus takes his throne in heaven and when Satan is hurled down to earth. According to modern JWs, the end of the Gentile Times isn't the end of the last days but its beginning.

However, when you read Bible Examiner by Russell, he seems to be implying that, while the end of the Gentile Times does take place in 1914, this expression is synonymous, to him, with the expression "the end of the last days." I conclude this because of what Russell says in this issue. After pointing to 1914 as the end of the Gentile Times (like modern JWs), he then, unlike modern JWs, claims that this same year is also "[w]hen Gentile Governments shall have been dashed to pieces; when God shall have poured out of his fury upon the nation, and they acknowledge, him King of Kings and Lord of Lords." Here, Russell seems to be implying that the end of the Gentile Times is also when the Armageddon occurs.

So... My question is this. Can someone, with more knowledge about Russell, clarify this for me? If I'm correct, it seems like this is just one more example of Watchtower's dishonesty. Relying on the fact that today Jehovah's Witnesses use the expression "the end of the Gentile Times" differently than Russell, they point to this issue of Bible Examiner to support their claim. However, what they don't admit is that Russell thought the end of the Gentile Times was also when the Armageddon would occur. If I'm correct, then what this means is not only that the Watchtower is being dishonest, but that they're also committing a logical fallacy called the fallacy of equivocation.

9

The Bloody Boogeyman

by Saename in

have you ever heard a witness argue that blood transfusions are often unhealthy anyway?

it's something that they mention nearly every time to make you think... "oh, after all, it's not like jehovah's witnesses are fanatics because they deny certain medical treatments purely for the sake of the bible.

they do have medical reasons as well!".

Saename

TD - Nearly all the traditional risks associated with allogeneic blood can be eliminated via the donation and storage of the patient's own blood.

steve2 - Yes, Saename, they cannot even access autologous transfusions - which would eliminate all known risks of transfusions.

I haven't thought of that, but this is an extremely good point.

9

The Bloody Boogeyman

by Saename in

have you ever heard a witness argue that blood transfusions are often unhealthy anyway?

it's something that they mention nearly every time to make you think... "oh, after all, it's not like jehovah's witnesses are fanatics because they deny certain medical treatments purely for the sake of the bible.

they do have medical reasons as well!".

Saename

Yeah, I called one Witness out on dishonesty when she brought up this argument. She immediately blocked me, though. It was on another website.