Posts by Saename

28

Why Judaism and the Torah ?

by Crazyguy in

so i have been studying early christianity a bit and noticed that before christianity really took off after 325 ce, there were a lot of religions.

gnostics teachings , belief in all sorts of different gods from egypt to greece .

the practice of emperor worship etc.

deegee, you completely misunderstood me. I wasn't talking about whether or not Constantine chose Pauline Christianity. I know this is what you were talking about, and I'm fine with that. What I was talking about is whether Constantine wanted to bring unity and peace to the Empire by converting to Christianity. This is wrong. This is what I was talking about. I was debunking this, not whether he chose Pauline Christianity. Constantine did not convert to Christianity in order to bring peace and unity to the Empire. Any critical scholar to my knowledge would tell you that.

By the way, since I'm already responding to your misunderstanding, I need to address two myths that you either stated as facts or implied in your post (which then I may have misunderstood):

1) You say that Constantine made Christianity the state religion. Here is a quote from your post:

Constantine caused the survival of Christianity, having made it the formally recognized state religion and the recognized format was Paul's religion.

This is completely wrong. Constantine did not establish Christianity as the state religion. This is a very persistent myth. Which is completely and utterly wrong. (Where do people get these ideas from...?)

2) In the below quote, you seem to be implying that Constantine instituted the Council of Nicea in order to bring harmony and unity to the Roman Empire. (This is how I at least understand it because of your use of the phrase "For that reason.")

Constantine became closely involved in it, bringing with him the Roman desire for harmony and unity. For that reason, he instituted the church-wide Council at Nicea, its task being the setting of the date for Easter.

If this is what you're implying, you need to know that the Council of Nicea was not about bringing "the Roman desire for harmony and unity." It was about establishing consensus on the nature of Jesus as Christ (which you yourself say in your post, so I'm not sure how you got the thing in the quote above so wrong...)

On a further note, you seem to be using Doug Mason as your source. Keep in mind that he is just an online blogger whose desire is to debunk the Watchtower (which is fine with me.) But if you're gonna use him as a source for actual history, then I don't know why I even bother to talk to you. If you said that Constantine established Christianity as the state religion (which is a myth and everybody who has ever studied history knows this) because this guy Doug Mason wrote so, then you should consider stop using him as a source. If someone thinks that Constantine established Christianity as the state religion, this is a big—and I mean a BIG—sign that he or she knows nothing about history. Literally nothing since this is basic stuff...

Edit:

the Roman desire for harmony and unity, this time within the Church, manifested itself in 381 CE when Emperor Theodosius instructed that Arianism was not acceptable

Nope. Roman desire for harmony and unity...? Again...? Nope. It was only about establishing a united Christendom. (And saying that "Theodosius instructed that Arianism was not acceptable" is an understatement :D)

13

Goddard Resigns. A Big Blow to Justice In Britain

by Slidin Fast in

i seems that the child abuse enquiry in the uk has hit the wall again.

its a great pity.. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08/04/child-sex-abuse-victims-say-inquiry-has-descended-into-farce-as/.

Saename

Today on JW Broadcasting (read in Stephen Lett's voice):

"We have (pause) great news (pause), our faithful brothers and sisters. (pause) Jehovah (pause) has shown us (pause) his sign of approval. (pause) In UK (pause), as some of you may know (pause), Jehovah's Witnesses (pause) have been persecuted (pause) by the government! (pause) As it turns out (pause), the person in charge of the organisation (pause) that has been persecuting our fellow Witnesses (pause) resigned because of her own (pause) indecent conduct! (pause) Can you believe it? (pause) Whenever somebody wishes to persecute (pause) Jehovah's own people (pause), their dirt (pause) always comes out. (pause) This is a great sign (pause) that Witnesses (pause) always win (pause) against worldly organisations (pause). We have (pause) God's holy spirit!"

Imagine what'd happen if then Jehovah's Witnesses searched Internet to find out what Lett would have meant by "persecution."

13

Here's another one

by stillin in

this guy was an elder.

i'm sorry if somebody already posted this.. http://abc7.com/news/former-oc-teacher-charged-w--sexually-assaulting-teen-boy/1458295/.

anybody know him?.

Saename

The victim called the authorities. The elders, if they knew about it, did nothing.

28

Why Judaism and the Torah ?

by Crazyguy in

so i have been studying early christianity a bit and noticed that before christianity really took off after 325 ce, there were a lot of religions.

gnostics teachings , belief in all sorts of different gods from egypt to greece .

the practice of emperor worship etc.

Saename

Crazyguy - The gospels came later in the 2nd century according to most experts.

The gospels? Which gospels? The gospels we have in the New Testament were most likely written before the end of the first century. There are scholars who propose later dates for those gospels, but this is a scarce minority. This is basic stuff...

Crazyguy - Some people think Jesus was modeled after Apollonius of tyanna and that even Paul was modeled after him.

People say that, but it makes no sense whatsoever. Stories about Apollonius were written down 150 years after Jesus. The gospels and Pauline epistles came way before the written sources for Apollonius. If anything, it'd make sense if Apollonius were modeled after Jesus. But we know that both Apollonius and Jesus were both likely historical figures.

Crazyguy - Other think Jesus was modeled after Simon Madgus.

That's more crackpot stuff. Simon Magus (not Magdus...) was a convert to Christianity.

Crazyguy - Most of the Christian teaching were copies of older Egyptian religious teachings and Jesus as the God seemed to be an algamation of several older Gods like Dionysus and Osiris.

Not true at all. There certainly are similarities between Egyptian religious teachings and Christian teachings (I'm not saying there aren't), but there isn't much of those similarities at all. And Jesus as an amalgamation of other gods? Completely not true. I advise you to study Egyptian mythology first before copying what other crackpot writers say. (Hell, I'm glad you didn't mention anything about Horus... That'd be embarrassing.) Read what actual Egyptologists have to say about those idiotic ideas. You'd be surprised.

deegee - Given Paul's pandering to the Roman authorities, Constantine saw the political value of Pauline Christianity - Pauline Christianity was not just seen as a religion but as a political solution to bring about the unity and harmony and control of the populace which Constantine desired.

Not at all. According to the sources we have, Constantine did not have a single clue what Christianity was before his conversion. His mother most likely was not a Christian in his youth, and his father was not one at all. After the visions—he probably had two visions—he had to have someone explain to him the teachings of Christianity etc. (How would he know that becoming Christian would bring peace and unity in the empire if he had no idea what this religion was?) Bart Ehrman puts it this way:

Constantine became a Christian convert. Possibly the most important point to make about the conversion is that Constantine – as is true of all converts – did not and could not understand everything there was to know about the Christian faith at the time. His faith, and his knowledge, may have been very rudimentary indeed. He may not have known that he needed to be baptized at some point. He may not have known that Christians not only refused to worship other gods but believed the pagan gods were demons and not gods at all. He may not have known that there were ethical requirements that went along with being Christian. He may not have known that there were refined theological views and serious debates among the Christians about the nature of God, the identity of Christ, the relationship of Christ and God. He may not have known … lots and lots of things [emphasis added].

Moreover, Eusebeius makes it very clear that what Constantine wanted was help from a divine in the Battle at the Milvian Bridge:

Knowing well that he would need more powerful aid than an army can supply because of the mischievous magical devices practiced by the tyrant, he sought a god to aid him. He regarded the resources of soldiers and military numbers as secondary, for he thought that without the aid of a god these could achieve nothing; and he said that what comes from a god’s assistance is irresistible and invincible. He therefore considered what kind of god he should adopt to aid him (Life of Constantine 1.27).

This battle was a very important one in his life; it paved the way for him to become the only emperor in the Roman Empire (the Rule of the Four/Tetrarchy...) You could study the historical context of Constantine's conversion. It's a very interesting read. When you study the fight for power amongst the six emperors of the Roman Empire (Constantine, Severus, Galerius, Maxentius, Maximian [Maxentius asked him for help in Rome], Licinius), it becomes clear that the reason Constantine became Christian was to seek divine help in his battle. He didn't think that becoming Christian would bring peace or unity in the empire. That's simply not true. If he became Christian, Maxentius would not care, and he was the problem. The solution was to kill Maxentius. Maxentius would not step down if Constantine became Christian. Maxentius had a problem with Constantine because Constantine became an Augustus after his father. Diocletian gave rise to the Tetrarchy so that people wouldn't become emperors after their fathers. Constantine ignored that. Maxentius didn't like that because he himself wasn't allowed to become Augustus or even Caesar after his father Maxentius... So, no, becoming Christian had nothing to do with bringing peace or unity. This is stuff that people say when they have no idea what was actually going on in the empire at that time.

28

Why Judaism and the Torah ?

by Crazyguy in

so i have been studying early christianity a bit and noticed that before christianity really took off after 325 ce, there were a lot of religions.

gnostics teachings , belief in all sorts of different gods from egypt to greece .

the practice of emperor worship etc.

Saename

I would say something... but others said it well already.

88

After Jesus fasted for 40 days, he was tempted by a man (not a fallen angel).

by quincemyles in

after jesus fasted for 40 days, he was tempted by a man (not an evil angel) to turn stones into bread, jump from the temple and bow.

the tester was a pharisee of the ruling class.

jehovah's witnesses believe the tester to have been an evil spirit or leader of fallen angels named satan the devil.

Saename

punkofnice - That's very Christian of you to be polite.....

Ha. Very funny. I'm an atheist.

And, no, that was not ad hominem. I don't think you know how ad hominem works. Here, I'll give you an example:

You're an idiot. Therefore, you're wrong.

But I'm not saying the above nor anything resembling it. I'm saying that there is clear evidence for the *historical* Jesus (not the christological Jesus.) The fact that you didn't find any suggests you haven't been looking for it or you're mentally blind. There's a difference. (See? I'm not saying that you're mentally blind and therefore you can't see the evidence—that would be ad hominem. I'm saying you don't see the evidence and therefore you either weren't looking for it or you're mentally blind...)

But on a side note, there is a freaking reason why there is not a single scholar who is employed at a university or college who teaches any relative field to Christianity and who doesn't believe that Jesus existed.

And if you're so lazy that you don't want to look for evidence for the *historical* Jesus, here I give you a two-part article that discusses both sides in great detail:

Evidence for the Historical Jesus Part 1

Evidence for the Historical Jesus Part 2

And if you're still not convinced, then read some books written by actual scholars. Then come back and talk about the evidence for or against Jesus.

38

Trolley cart "witnessing" is getting ridiculous

by oppostate in

i really fail to see how much actual "witnessing" is occurring with the trolley carts.publishers, usually pioneers, just stand or sit there not engaging anyone and count their time.. the only thing i notice that it's accomplishing is brand exposure for jw.0rg so the public is exposed to the logo and literature/poster card headlines.. take for example this "evening" witnessing by a pioneer elder while on summer holiday/vacation.. .

is this not a wth kinda moment when you consider the years of slaving, knocking on doors, business territory and bible studies we had to keep performing so we weren't branded a "weak" publisher?.

Saename

stan livedeath - is it ok to count time if a dub sticks a jayworg sign in his front window at home ? or--how about a jayworg bumper sticker ? count time whilev driving. or even when the car is parked for hours.

Soon, my brother. We need to wait on Jehovah. Jehovah will make this special provision and privilege. For now, just think how wonderful our preaching will be in the future when Jehovah will finally [wake up and (?)] provide us with jayword bumper stickers and signs to put in our front windows at home. Then, we will be able to say that, "evidently," the prophecy of Matthew 24.14 is finally being fulfilled. Ah, our organisation is truly advancing and going ahead of all other organisations and religions!!

8

A Womans Role In The bOrg

by pale.emperor in

i just read a thread somewhere on here that someone has been accepted to bethel service along with his wife.

his wife has, of course, been assigned to work in the laundry room.

which compels me to write this little post.. now, i dont consider myself a "feminist" as such, but i definitely believe in equality.

Saename

What if this female god wore spanx...?

11

Interesting find in the bible last night

by Crazyguy in

so i was reading genesis chapter 10 and 11 to see how it explains the man who supposedly is the offspring of noah and he and his offspring become the nation known as egypt.

in some bibles they actually call him egypt.

well as i was reading chapter 10 i noticed something.

Saename

sir82 is a bit mistaken here... The first 11 chapters of Genesis are not "a mishmash of a bunch of separate . . . oral traditions." The whole Pentateuch is. The modern scholarly consensus is that the Torah was not written in part or in whole by Moses or by any other single person. It is a composition of different written sources (not oral traditions) which then were based on oral traditions.

There is a hypothesis called the Documentary Hypothesis which states that the Pentateuch is composed of four separate written sources named J, E, D, and P. However, scholars today have varying views in regards to that hypothesis. Some say that there were more sources, some disagree with the dating of these sources, some say that J and E were not separate sources, and on and on it goes... Basically, scholars have different views, but everyone agrees that the whole Pentateuch is a composition of different sources.

57

I got my Bethel Application approved, I start in September

by Quarterback in

jw
friends

well it took awhile.

i've downsized.

got rid of my bmw.

Saename

Please... God... let this be sarcasm...