Holy hell... Is it possible to be that unaware of logical fallacies? Even when I was being brainwashed I could still detect circular logic and other fallacies. I would always avoid those even when I was in the organisation. So strange. Sooo straaange...
Saename
JoinedPosts by Saename
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So my brother called me last night...
by pale.emperor inmy older brother is studying with the witnesses.
he was raised in a jw household like we all were but he never committed to it.
he stopped attending meetings at 18yo, made a lot of bad decisions in his life and now, at 35yo is having a bible study.
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What's Expected in Field Service?
by Cold Steel indo all potential converts have to take part in field service before baptism?
and do new members generally try to bring in their friends and family or do they generally keep their religion to themselves?
what do pioneers do if they're going door to door and chance on someone they know or work with in their personal lives?
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Saename
You ask very interesting questions. I will answer each of them based on my own experiences that I had in the area that I live in. Keep in mind that this may not necessarily apply to other regions/countries. I live in Ontario, Canada.
Do all potential converts have to take part in field service before baptism?
Yes. Before you get baptised, you need to become an unbaptised publisher. It's a stage before baptism, and you need to show that you are ready to be committed to the organisation. Hence, you preach and apply the JW teachings to your own life already before baptism. (This answer applies to every single country.)
And do new members generally try to bring in their friends and family or do they generally keep their religion to themselves?
New members are encouraged to preach to anyone, so that obviously includes your friends and family. If they aren't interested, you may also be encouraged to cut all ties with them, but that depends on your congregation. My congregation never encouraged me to stop talking to my family; on the contrary, they often told me that good servants of Jehovah need to be able to keep in contact with their family members and balance this with the JW life (preaching, studying, meetings, etc.) However, they did discourage me from having non-JW friends. They were understanding since I was in high school, but I was expected to treat my classmates as acquaintances, not as friends. I never got baptised, too (I was an unbaptised publisher—still probably am listed as one), so they weren't too pushy about this, but I have no doubt at all that they would "encourage" me to lose all my non-JW friends if I ever got actually baptised.
What do Pioneers do if they're going door to door and chance on someone they know or work with in their personal lives?
Pioneers are expected to treat them as they would any other householder—that is, they are supposed to hand them a magazine, read a Bible verse, have a brief discussion about it, and then ask if they can come back next week to continue their conversation. The same applies to non-pioneers and unbaptised publishers. If I ever encountered a friend from school (which never happened to me as I live far away from the school that I attended), I was supposed to talk to them about the Bible no matter what. However, elders in my area were always understanding about it, so while they did encourage us to keep the conversation going, they also understood if we ever were too embarrassed to actually do so. However, after one such encounter, the elders would usually talk to you about it and encourage you to love Jehovah more—that is, to preach to even your colleagues. If you remained too embarrassed, you could be labeled as spiritually weak in the eyes of the congregation. That would not end too well.
Has this ever happened to you? What would you say?
No, that has never happened to me. However, I did once preach in my high school to my friends about the Memorial of Jesus Christ. This is a big celebration (of Jesus' death) for every Jehovah's Witness, so naturally, I was "encouraged" to preach about it in my school. I did it with a few people (a limited number) and even brought one friend to the Memorial, but I was too embarrassed to do it ever again. Needless to say, I never actually did it again. Young people should never be told to do something like that! (I did, however, lie—or more like suggested—to the Jehovah's Witnesses in my congregation that I continued to preach in my school so that they wouldn't ostracize me or label me as spiritually weak.)
And are JWs still pushing bible study?
Technically they are. You may just not notice it. They did change their technique a bit, I think. Today, they just start with handing a magazine to the householder, and if s/he accepts it, two Jehovah's Witnesses ask whether they can come back next week to continue their discussion (along with the magazine, they would introduce a topic to talk about.) Eventually, those 5-minute weekly visits turn into Bible studies. It happens gradually now. In the past, they were more straightforward with it. (However, they do have special campaigns during which they are encouraged to start a Bible study immediately.)
They used to ask for donations for their magazines years ago. Who pays for the magazines they distribute?
Where I live, they don't ask for donations anymore. The magazines (and everything else) is paid for by those who already are members. They usually donate monthly. Additionally, they ask for donations those that they are already acquainted with (such as non-JW friends or family members that they have Bible discussions with or weekly visits that I already mentioned before), but they never ask strangers.
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If gossiping was a D.Fing offence how many in your congro would be D.Fed?
by karter inthere goes at least half the elders wife's alot of the publishers.
karter.
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Saename
The congregations I attended were never known for gossiping. But I suppose it's the Canadian nature, ha!
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Beth Shan - Rutherford's House of Security - IMAGES
by Bloody Hotdogs! ini thought i would supplement this thread with some new images of beth shan.. location:.
[url=http://s1132.photobucket.com/user/midcentmod/media/site%20plan%20beth%20shan.jpg.html][img]http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m562/midcentmod/site%20plan%20beth%20shan.jpg[/img][/url].
1939, during construction:.
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Saename
Edit: Yeah... Got my answers, so I'll just remove the questions.
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Have you ever known a holocaust denier? How did you feel about them?
by Esse quam videri ini sometimes did work for a lovely old couple who at times needed repairs done around their home.
my wife and myself spent time with them, having tea and crackers from time to time.
one day the husband and myself got into a conversation and he clearly showed himself to be a holocaust denier.
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Saename
That makes sense now. Thanks, David_Jay.
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Have you ever known a holocaust denier? How did you feel about them?
by Esse quam videri ini sometimes did work for a lovely old couple who at times needed repairs done around their home.
my wife and myself spent time with them, having tea and crackers from time to time.
one day the husband and myself got into a conversation and he clearly showed himself to be a holocaust denier.
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Saename
David_Jay - Jews can't say we deny the Shoah (which is another clue about what you are, as we Jews find the word Holocaust--a reference to heathen sacrifice--as inappropriate, so we have our own word for it).
Out of curiosity, do you know why the Shoah is called the "Holocaust" by non-Jews? It's interesting to see that an event which killed millions of Jews is called the same name as the Jewish sacrifice burned on an altar.
Alostpuppydogs - Jessie Owens had a great experience in Berlin and was greeted by the Führer himself and came back to be, in his own words, snubbed by the president and immediately subjected to racism at the first restaurant he ate at.
That is not exactly the case. While it is true that the Americans (especially the President, Franklin D. Roosevelt) refused to acknowledge Jesse Owens, the Germans did the same thing***. I mean... these were the 1930s. Both North America and Europe were racist. Hitler (your Fuhrer) definitely didn't greet Owens. Hitler, in fact, didn't congratulate anyone at the Olympics. He was told that, in order to appear neutral, he had to either congratulate everyone or no one—that is, he couldn't just congratulate the Aryans as he wanted to do. Hence, he chose not to congratulate anyone for (very) racist reasons.
*** Here is a quote from Jesse Owens himself: "I wasn't invited up to shake hands with Hitler—but I wasn't invited t othe White House to shake hands with the President, either." Source: Larry Schwartz, "Owens Pierced a Myth" (2005).
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JW mention in Geography book
by Nihilistic Journey ini was reading a book exploring he relationship between geography and religion and found the following quote starting on page 121 of chris park's sacred worlds.. park, c. c. (1994).
sacred worlds: an introduction to geography and religion.
london: routledge.. one of the most dynamic religious groups in terms of disseminating its beliefs is the jehovah’s witnesses.
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Saename
The pacifist group claims to have up to 200 million followers world-wide . . . and believes that a final battle (Armageddon) is imminent after which the Witnesses will rule the earth with Christ.
A bit misleading, if you ask me.
1) It's not a pacifist group.
2) They don't claim to have 200 million followers as far as I know. I think they claim to have... 20 million? Around 8 million are baptised, and the rest are "interested" (they attend the Memorial, etc.)
3) They don't exactly claim that they will rule the earth after Armageddon. I mean... it's partially true, but only partially. They claim the 144,000 will rule the earth along with Jesus and Jehovah, and the rest (millions of them) will live on the earth, as Witnesses also, under their rule. I think this difference is important to stress because someone who doesn't know this cult intimately would get the wrong idea after reading the sentence in this book.
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Have you ever known a holocaust denier? How did you feel about them?
by Esse quam videri ini sometimes did work for a lovely old couple who at times needed repairs done around their home.
my wife and myself spent time with them, having tea and crackers from time to time.
one day the husband and myself got into a conversation and he clearly showed himself to be a holocaust denier.
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Saename
Someone here wanted to see a Holocaust denier confront an actual survival. I found on YouTube an excerpt from a play Denial in which you can see just that. Now, it is just a fictional play based on the Holocaust, so this did not actually happen, but I thought that some people may still enjoy it:
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The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday
by cofty inyesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.
we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.
they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.
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Saename
If that's what you're asking, yes, this thread has the greatest number of posts.
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2596
The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday
by cofty inyesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.
we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.
they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.
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Saename
Oh hell! You are a genius! I've wasted 3 hours already reading this (not really)!