Posts by stephenw20

9

A Gospel of LOVE or a Gospel of HATE?

by JanH in

jw
friends

" (the watchtower, 10/15 1958, pp.

" (the watchtower, 7/1 1967, pp.

" (the watchtower, 12/1 1961, pp.

What does the WTBTS have to gain?

by aud8 in

jw
friends

i have a question:.

if the wtbts is so into deceiving everyone and trying to reel in as many newcomers as possible, what does it actually have to gain from this?

why are they always trying to switch teachings to make themselves look "believable"?

Think about this.
At least you have to give the WTS some credit. See, they are willing to be ridiculed for an organizational change, or a change in one of their doctrines if after further Bible studying they find a clearer understanding. They will not stay stubborn on one belief until eternity. Although there have been many changes, basic Bible truths have not changed:
Jehovah is not part of a trinity. The ransom sacrifice of Jesus Christ. Hell is not a place of torment. etc.

YA know GR... I like the idea you are here to love your brothers and defend the WTBTS. It s wonderful to have an opinion. Its also wonderful to have a consistent opinion.

GR writes:

"yet they make very wise decisions when they invest (a businessman will agree).
Could they actually have the backing of Jehovah? Don't rule it out so quickly. Think about it."

Yes let us consider this shall we Having gods backing, let see the evidence......Are you attempting to state that men with no business experience cant run a multibillion dollar Corporation......
THINK again...........Bill Gates. knew how to play with a computer....the Fella running America isnt the sharpest pencil in
the box, but he is SURROUNDED by some that are.

Lets get back to the point of GODs backing and CHANGING a stance on something........can any one tell me the last time GOD changed his stance on something........oh gee thats right he doesnt ........well then........this backing you say the org has.......can you show me all the evidence of such.

and while your at it......look up these few watchtowers so you can get the full import of the points you make.

1982 "Today, a remnant of this 'faithful sHOO' is still alive on earth. They occupy a position similar to that of Paul .. when that apostle said of the wonderful truths .. 'It is to us God has revealed them through his spirit.' .. How vital it is for everyone in God's family to submit loyally to the teachings and arrangements of the Great Theocrat, Jehovah, and his King-Son, Christ Jesus, as transmitted through the 'faithful slave' on earth." {WT Jun 1 1982 17 etc.}

1982 "At the headquarters of Jehovah's Witnesses in Brooklyn, New York, there is a governing body of older Christian men from various parts of the earth who give the needed oversight to the worldwide activities of God's people. This governing body is made up of members of 'the faithful and discreet slave.' It serves as a spokesman for that faithful 'slave.' The men of that governing body, like the apostles and older men in Jerusalem, have many years of experience in God's service. But they do not rely on human wisdom in making decisions. No, being governed theocratically, they follow the example of the early governing body in Jerusalem, whose decisions were based on God's Word and were made under the direction of holy spirit." {YCLF 195}

The May 15, 2001 Watchtower states , that Jesus directs the faithful and discrete slave in their work. So from the above we have Jehovah as the editor, Jesus directing the faithful and discrete slave and the Holy Spirit directing this effort. If any organization truly had all this, spiritual direction from the principles that created this universe , should not every word printed by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society be regarded in the same way as the bible. Any corporation or group that had this spirit based direction could never be questioned. So I ask you , show me this evidence that requires me to believe that these earthly men are any different that you or I.

Oh please!

Some of you may not be aware of the Pacific Learning Center for the WTBS
where is it, California, no Oregon,no Washington st... NO
its in HAWAII........
http://www.planet-hawaii.com/mtp/tenants.htm

Has any of the publishers looked at a yearbook to see how many publishers LIVE in Hawaii. ITs certainly not CHEAP to FLY there.

Please GR.. feel free to comment..

17

What does the WTBTS have to gain?

by aud8 in

jw
friends

i have a question:.

if the wtbts is so into deceiving everyone and trying to reel in as many newcomers as possible, what does it actually have to gain from this?

why are they always trying to switch teachings to make themselves look "believable"?

stephenw20

20+million copies a week(awake or Watchtower)
Xmillon book copies
donations donations donations

or in other words

THE ROOT OF ALL SORTS OF INJURIOUS THINGS

THE LOVE OF MONEY
DOUGH
mula
coin

urgh!

272

McVeigh vs Death Penalty

by Amazing in

jw
friends

i am a policitcal conservative, at least a fiscal conservative and sociel moderate.

i support the death penalty, but i agree that our judicial system needs to overhaul how wwe treat criminals to achieve better rehabilitation results.

and of course, withhold the death penalty in cases where there could be doubt.. in mcveigh's case, i believe that he deserves the death penalty.

stephenw20

TJ

let me say that if we had just popped up on an island somewhere and didn't know what forms of behavior were acceptable, then we could overlook mcveigh's chosen path to address his problems

Please share with us the acceptable form of behavior......
Adam & Eve Popped up and then had two kids
one a murderer.......

where does this acceptable form come from......

S

24

Answer to: Why do JW's come here against WT policy

by GodRules in

jw
friends

believe it or not the motives are love, at least in my case.

i know that sometimes jw's on this board do not show that, but it goes the same with some ex-jw's too.. am i going against wt counsel?

yes, but i am willing to pay the price to help my fellow man, specially if i see that they blinded by resentment and are going contrary to jehovah's will.. why does the wt give the counsel to stay away from site such as this?

stephenw20

Am I going against WT counsel? Yes, but I am willing to pay the price to help my fellow man, specially if I see that they blinded by resentment and are going contrary to Jehovah's will.

IF you SEE.....well while many may appreciate your love for fellow man, what of the right of another to express this freedom of speech , religion, and ideas , given ... not by the WTBTS but by the guy who existed.. just a wee bit longer.

please do share with all of us the WILL of god since you seem to know what that may be.............

I must say the arrogance of such a position is in itself offensive to me. To express you may know the will of god for yourself would be quite an accomplishment..... to do it for 6 billion people is just a joke.

Carry on GOD RULES........what a catchy name.....

11

what if???

by jolly_green_giant in

jw
friends

what if the witnesses do have all the answers?

what if the big a does come and we all have to answer the 'the man upstairs'?

what will your arguement be???

stephenw20

JGG

by answers they have , if you are referring to secrets or to lies they cover over or deny , I am not sure I understand your point. When asked pointedly about their own faith and to defend it from anything but a publication which originates in Brooklyn or Patterson, they are unable to do so.

so please put these ~answers~ out so we may al look at em and see for ourselves.

as far as the rest of your question goes...... do you need the BIG A to have integrity , to be moral , to love and be compassionate...cant you answer the QUESTION before the BIG A.............

life aint all between the ears....its between the breaths.......

s

14

Go Ahead And Jump!

by Seven in

it is the most basic thing about us; we share it with all living beings.

at each moment, millions of events take place inside our bodies and inside our minds that are designed to help us stay alive.

until the present, at least, the forces that are life-preserving have been stronger than the forces that are life-destroying.

stephenw20

Seven,
My soul sister...yes Please take a FEW deep slow breaths... the equivalent of SPIRIT in many lands.......... slow the breathing down and let it calm the mind...... focus on the breath ......focus on the air in & out of your body... the spirit flowing in and out.........

please feel free to email.. I am not available 24/7 but I am around much and can listen quite well! i will give you a contact number........

Stephen
Please Seven...keep the breathing slow ,deep, quiet and more regular........

42

Sci-Fi Fans Only: A.I.

by Maximus in

jw
friends

i hear tell there are some aficionados out there.. as a young man i secretly loved ray bradbury, isaac asimov, l. sprague decamp, poul anderson, arthur c. clarke and others.

loved brian aldiss' "super-toys last all summer.".

when the movie "2001: a space odyssey" premiered, i sneaked into a theater all by myself, and was blown away.

stephenw20

Max.

that line got me as well

but ponder this

if you could for just ONE day live with him and hear him say" I love you"

would you

s

13

Elders will ask two questions---any advice?

by Erin in

jw
friends

i have been missing in action for 6.5 years.

i moved 55 miles away.

a couple of weekends ago, two elders (in suits) from my old cong.

stephenw20

Erin,
I have been laying low for awhile but your post is too interesting to pass up.

So for 77 months you have been away, with no contact and no one called to see how you were. THey just show up?....

I would find it a lot less than rational for anyone to be in a role of sheparding or caring for anyone if they let them go six yrs +. you did nto mention where you heard the things they want to ask you about... but I would have to throw that back at them.

First, let them make an appointment, your time is too valuable to waste. Second if they have questions to ask you, let them tell you ahead what they may be so you can prepare to answer them, after all it took them 6.5 years to develop their questions. Thirdly, if they do ask the Organization vs god question, throw it back at them and then have them EXPLAIN there views from the bible. If they still are on the organization kick. ask them why god, who does not lie and is infaliible, has been the editor of the Watchtower since 1931 yet some inofrmation printed inthe magazine is not accurate.

NEW YORK KING'S COUNTY CLERKS'S COURT RECORD, 1940, vol. II, p 795:
Fred W. Franz on the witness stand:

"Q. Who subsequently becamse the Editor of the magazine, the main editor of the "Watch Tower" magazine ?

A. In 1931, October 15th, as I recall, the "Watch Tower" discontinued publishing the names of any editorial committee on the second page.

THE COURT: He asked you who became the editor.

THE WITNESS: And it said --

THE COURT: Who became the editor ?

Q. Who became the editor when this was discontinued ?

A. Jehovah God."

Fred W. Franz later became the President of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society and remains in that position to this day. So we see that Jehovah God is the editor of the Watch Tower.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

As they head for the door tell them you’ll be happy to answer any of their questions when they deserve answers to them. THE JW'S did not create you and have no right to your life, If you dedicated your life to god, then it's to him you answer and him alone.

Stephen

This aint Amateur hour

by stephenw20 in

this was taken fromthe myss site.

while it is not about jws , see if you see any paralell.

dear caroline,.

stephenw20

This was taken fromthe myss site. While it is not about JWS , see if you see any paralell

Dear Caroline,

There is a topic I would like to hear addressed anywhere you feel it
might be appropriate. I am concerned about the whole matter of
mental/spiritual health in the context of religious groups. These might
be any of the eastern religious groups so popular lately in the west,
some operated by trained westerners, some by eastern born teachers, etc.
Of course they vary as to authenticity or cultist qualities, but it
would be nice to examine the quality of that energy, which often seems
to me sort of parasitic and/or intuition negating. Even the ones that
speak glowingly of 'knowing the true mind' actually seem to be
compromising the minds of new devotees. I guess these seem like soft
cults to me.

A geographically distant friend, a very good and well intentioned
person, hid her intense involvement with a Buddhist group for a year or
so, then explained that she had hidden it from many people because they
'wouldn't understand.' The hiding worries me more than the fact that
chanting in a very foreign language seems somehow to ignore what is
available in our own native cultures, and feels like escape from what
one knows to obey an authority we don't have the language to question.
Didn't we go through this 'instant Buddhist' phase about 3 decades ago?
Admittedly, I'm biased towards the way you teach about spirit, using a
synthesis of all traditions.

I'm worried about my friend and many others who might paradoxically be
giving up their own best judgment tools in hopes that gurus will give
them better ones--at a cost. Would you discuss the health cost, and
pGYTOble antidotes?

Thanks for all you are doing.

Answer
Thanks for writing - Socially speaking, people have always worshipped in
a group. The majority of societies, cultures, and nations have come
together as a result of a religion shared. Nothing is more natural than
to pray and to celebrate spiritual and cultural rituals as a group.
As an archetypal template, spiritual leaders emerge from groups -
Rabbi's, Priests, Guru's, Medicine Men and Shamans, Sages, Oracles, and
numerous other cultural names - to be 'Point' men and women, enacting
rituals and granting blessings and bringing forth guidance from the
Divine to the congregation or society they serve. These practices form
the backbone of every level of society - neighborhoods not to mention
nations are scripted around religious cultures. These are the power
coordinates of humanity. And the accepted purpose for these religious
organizations - simply put, emphasis on the word 'simply' - is to
provide spiritual guidance and conduct sacred rituals with the anointed
among them having the role of mediator between humanity and the Divine.
Whew.
Now them, on the other extreme are cults, societies built around using
the shadow side of spiritual power for mind and power control as opposed
to spiritual expansion. In essence, cults operate on the same principle
as religion, only in reverse, or in ~shadow~ side of its power.

Having said that, let's now introduce the right a person has to serve
their spiritual growth in private. Many people assume postures of
silence just to avoid having to interact with people who expect, not to
mention demand, an explanation for them as to why they believe what they
do. I can understand why many people keep silent about their spiritual
path - they do not owe any one an explanation as to how they wish to
pursue their interior growth. But the consequences of such personal
choices to one's outside world is that it is easy for people to assume
that their friends or family members are involved in a cult or some
version of it precisely because of this element of silence and secrecy -
after all, where there are secrets, there are either financial, moral,
social, sexual, or religious crimes.... isn’t that what we think? (It
couldn't be that a person keeps something a secret just because they
don't want to be interfered with, right? We are a very suspicious
species and when we are not permitted into the main circle of privacy,
we automatically assume it is because there is something dark going on.)

On the other hand, secrets can suggest a fear based involved with a
group and when it is a religious cult, it is all the more terrifying
because.............. a cult grips the unconscious far deeper than a political
loyalty. ................The aspect of eternity is not connected to political
involvement.

So, where does that leave you with you friend? I can promise you that if
this individual is under a spell, there is not much you can do about it.
Let me suggest that you ask (her/him?) to
tell you about her theology, but you must make a commitment to holding a
position of respect and an open mind. If you come on with an attitude,
don't even bother because that is precisely the reason so many people
enter silence on their spiritual journey. If you sense that
spell casting is involved - ala Jim Jones and Charles Mason - there are
such groups that offer intervention assistance. But you sure better be
convinced you know what you're doing before you go that route - and you
will need the support of at least a hand full of people who have
interacted with this individual with the intention of evaluation,
including psychological experts. This ain't amateur hour here....

On that note, God bless,
Caroline