i just thought i'd share some jw mum sayings with you.
it can be painful seeing someone waste their lives in the borg.
but sometimes you've just got to laugh.
Hi STL
We've had something similar. She'll triumphantly read out a scripture, expecting us to see the error of our ways. But without the society's explanations, the scripture doesn't say what she wants it to. This results in a frustrated 'well, you'll have to read our books'.
It isn't doctrine that holds these people, it's emotion and blind faith in the society. But I'm glad that you saw the light!
Love
Sunbeam
xxx
i had long talk with my mom the other day, she called me and wanted to discuss the org and the things i didn't believe in.
i will spare you most of the convo, but a few things "clicked" as i spoke to her.
maybe i have been away for so long i can't clearly remember all of the teachings, but she did agree with a few things i brought up.
Wendy,
I'm sorry that you feel that your mother is lost to you right now. As you say, you have nothing to lose by continuing. However, the very fact that she is open to discussing your points could mean that she has unanswered questions about her faith. You are the only person that she can talk to about them, as you know it's out of bounds with other JW's.
We've recently started to think that we may eventually get through to my husband's JW mother. I thought that this would make me feel elated, but as you say the thought of her having to admit that she's dedicated her life to a fraudulent religion is upsetting. Meanwhile, though, she's wrestling with the guilt of never measuring up to 'Jehovah's' standards and is alienated from her family. She hasn't seen much evidence of the promised love and support recently. So which is worse?
I just wanted to say hang in there. You might get your mum back one day. How could she resist a great daughter like you. I just hope that she sees the light for your sake.
Love
Sunbeam
xxx
i just thought i'd share some jw mum sayings with you.
it can be painful seeing someone waste their lives in the borg.
but sometimes you've just got to laugh.
I just thought I'd share some JW mum sayings with you. It can be painful seeing someone waste their lives in the borg. But sometimes you've just got to laugh. My husband's had another 'tell me why you left, son' talk with his mum. (Wendy, there must be something in the air).
First of all, he pointed out the backstabbing and spying that is rife in the congregations. To which she replied, 'yes, that's true, but it's not as bad as it used to be'.
So it seems like the society's improving all the time. Backstabbing's at an all time low. Doesn't that make you want to go running back?
Asked why she is unable to defend her beliefs from the bible after more than 30 years of studying (is this a JW norm?), when I can manage a reasonable defence after only 2 - 'well I haven't looked into it as much as you and you're more academic, you can understand Greek grammar'. (Although she always claims that she really looked into it before she jumped, and I've never mentioned Greek grammar).
Anyway, the conversation wound up with her denying that the WTS ever said that anyone accepting blood fractions would be disfellowshipped. So if anyone can tell me which WT that was in - and where I can buy it on the net - please point me in the right direction.
Do you think that such desperate answers indicate that we could be getting somewhere? Or is this a lost cause?
Love
Sunbeam
xxx
BTW, my agnostic husband didn't want to tell me this, but he decided to show her a key change in the NWT, the 'Word was a god' line in contrast to its rendering in the interlinear. But he couldn't remember where it was. When he opened the bible it practically fell open at John 1. Spooky!
my husband has been disfellowshipped for 2 yrs.
and i have been inactive as long.
i don't want to bash the brothers and sisters because most of them are sincere.
Hi IML,
I just wanted to add my welcome too. Your board name sounds like a pretty good philosophy.
As to bashing JW's, many of us have loved ones in the organisation and would be more accurately described as WTBTS-bashers. We know that the people are often sincere - it's the system that's at fault.
I'm pleased to hear that your relationship with your husband has improved. Hopefully you can work this out together. I know it may sound cheesy, but have you thought about seeking out any local ex-JW support groups? As you seem to have discovered, confiding in friends 'on the outside' could be a big help.
As for the guilt, many people have found that reading analyses of the organisation's history, doctrines and psychology have quickly dispelled this. If you haven't already found it, Randy Watter's Freeminds site is a gem.
Wishing you all the best on your journey of discovery.
Sunbeam
xxxx
as i sit in front of my computer in a drunken stupor wondering what might have been, i felt i had to post my story to those who might truly understand what i am going through.. i am a newbie here, but have been lurking around for the last few weeks.
i am 25 years old, from ontario, and totally heartbroken.. to give you some background, back in 1998, i studied with the witnesses because some friends of mine, whom i believe to be honest and sincere people, gave me (i thought at the time) some good advice to start a book study.
i did, and i really enjoyed it because i felt they presented everything factually and had a strong interpretation of the scriptures (i'm a facts man, you see).
Thanks, Prisca :-)
Interestingly, at this weekend's DC my JW ma-in-law mentioned to my husband's (ex) best friend that we were upset by his avoidance of our wedding. He had told his wife he couldn't be seen to condone it, so she had to come along by herself.
I had reminded my m-in-l of the scenario recently, in relation to the hurt that was going to ensue at a friend's impending wedding if anyone avoided it for similar reasons, hoping that she would start to spot some of the cracks in the WT 'love'. Four years on, I just hope it sets them all thinking...
Sunbeam
xxx
as i sit in front of my computer in a drunken stupor wondering what might have been, i felt i had to post my story to those who might truly understand what i am going through.. i am a newbie here, but have been lurking around for the last few weeks.
i am 25 years old, from ontario, and totally heartbroken.. to give you some background, back in 1998, i studied with the witnesses because some friends of mine, whom i believe to be honest and sincere people, gave me (i thought at the time) some good advice to start a book study.
i did, and i really enjoyed it because i felt they presented everything factually and had a strong interpretation of the scriptures (i'm a facts man, you see).
Hi JB
When I was 25 and an atheist I fell in love with a JW. The relationship only lasted a few weeks and I suspect it ended prim
arily because of the inbuilt pressure to marry 'in the truth'.
I highlighted all sorts of problems/weirdnesses inherent in the religion - why where the JW's anti-education, why were there no 'intelligent' people at the local KH, why did God choose an American organisation (sorry everyone in the US), what about this disfellowshipping lark? All to no avail.
One year later, I got back in touch. He'd secretly agreed with a lot of the things I'd mentioned. The latest cheesy mag had been the final straw and he'd left the org. One year after that we were married. It was our 4th wedding anniversary yesterday :-)
I'm not trying to raise your hopes, but never underestimate the power of love and of God. The pain is excruciating right now. I tried partying when we split up but it just made things worse seeing all those happy couples. Friends would tell me I was better off away from the JW's and I'd never change them. So, as someone has said, just use this board to let rip. Everyone here (well, the vast majority) can understand and sympathise in a way that no-one else can.
Love
Sunbeam
xxx
a small question:.
according to the following text, paul , in antioch relates a reproof that he.
gave to peter and others because "they were not walking straight ...".
It's quite simple really, MacH. The GB were, after all, merely fallible men. They got a bit overenthusiastic at the dinner table and, as a result, a few of the Christians decided (of their own accord) that they should change their eating habits.
Fortunately, at just the right time, Jehovah God provided new light via Paul, who was able to clarify the situation.
It doesn't mean that everything else they did should be doubted too. After all, they were the ones who had taught the new Christians everything they knew, so there was nowhere else for them to go.
Hope this helps.
Sunbeam (learning how to speak with forked tongue)
xxx
im intrigued by the jws teachings re the 144,000 and i would much appreciate some input.. i mean, is their any real scriptural back-up to say that a set number of people will go from earth to heaven, or is this just a witness interpretation thing?.
also, how does this remnant become aware that they have a calling?
does the wtbts tend not to persecute these ones, if they hold views that would be deemed as apostate in others?.
Hi Englishman
This is a subject that I've looked into too. I hope I haven't got the wrong end of the stick, but I think you are asking what the bible says about the issue. If I'm wrong, please ignore the rest of this post :-(
From the point of view of mainstream Christianity (Protestants, Baptists, whatever) the whole 'anointed' experience is your bog standard Christian experience. How does the affected person know about it? It's undeniable. God breaks into your life and shakes it up. It happens in a different way for everyone, but it has the same effect.
The JW's don't want anyone to catch on to the fact that it's freely available to everyone who seeks it. They used to teach that it was only available to 144,000, who would all be JW's - obviously. Then the society grew beyond 144,000. Oops! But what do you know, at just the right time God gave them new light. Allegedly, there was *another* set of (2nd class) Christians, who would obey these 144,000. Phew, panic over.
As Amazing says, if you look at the scriptures, the Greek behind them, etc you find that the great crowd and the 144,000 are all in the same place - the kingdom of God - variously called heaven, Jerusalem, Mount Zion etc. They live happily ever after with Jesus. From a Christian's point of view, that's all that they need to know. They will be with Jesus forever, so they don't care where they are and what they've got to do all day. Heck, Man U could win the cup for the rest of eternity and it just wouldn't bother them :-).
What happens to them whilst they are still here? They receive the gift of the holy spirit - i.e. they are inextricably linked to God and develop a father:child relationship with him. The spirit helps them to understand the bible, what God's will is and begins to change them from the inside. They gradually become more Christlike as they get to know him better. But they still have their own will, so often still go their own way and ignore what the spirit is saying (i.e. sin). That's why they can seem like hypocrits (sp?). But God loves them anyway, 'cos he wants children not robots. (i.e. doctrine of salvation by faith vs the JW's doctrine of salvation by obeying the borg).
If you want to look up the theology, it's all in the justified/sanctified/glorified section (the 3 stages of being saved from the 1st moment of believing to the arriving in heaven bit).
To explain the 144,000 thing. Revelation is fond of numbers, especially 7 (signifies perfection and hence the imperfection of the beast - 666) and 12 (disciples, tribes, thrones, gates to Jerusalem, etc). 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes is 144,000. It's a symbolic thing.
Englishwoman
xxx
seems the jws are getting desprate for recruits, an article from a localpaper....... http://www.hartlepoolmail.co.uk/news/story3.html thought you all would be interested!
!
Gateshead.
Sunbeam
xxx
seems the jws are getting desprate for recruits, an article from a localpaper....... http://www.hartlepoolmail.co.uk/news/story3.html thought you all would be interested!
!
Hey Black Cat
I've just read your post about your local paper and realised that you aren't a million miles from me. Does your title refer to your status as a supporter of a certain football team?
Sunbeam
xxx
