Posts by Sunchild

24

Science vs. Spirituality?

by Sunchild in

jw
friends

i originally posed this question to jh in another thread, and now i'm wondering how other atheists -- especially the hardcore ones -- here would answer it.

this isn't about proving or disproving any particular viewpoint, but just an attempt to understand a mindset that seems... well... beyond my understanding.

<g> first, though, here are a couple of terms defined as used in the context of my inquiry.. science: the objective study of the natural world.. spirituality: an intangible aspect of nature/the universe (including humanity) that may or may not include belief in any deity, but which is merely a general sense that something more is out there, and also within us.

Sunchild

There is not such a thing like Science vs. Spirituality....because there are two different disciplines.

Actually, I think so, too. But I've run across at least a few people who seem to think that if you accept science, you can't believe in anything spiritual. I've also had some people try to tell me [incorrectly] that since I have a spiritual side, I don't believe in science. They refuse to believe me when I say that I think science is a good thing, and that it enriches my spiritual life; according to some, apparently, that's impossible. That's why I posed the question. I'm genuinely confused by this.

*Rochelle.

---------
"Most men complacently accept 'knowledge' as 'truth'. They are sheep, ruled by fear."
-- Sydney Losstarot, "Vagrant Story."

24

Science vs. Spirituality?

by Sunchild in

jw
friends

i originally posed this question to jh in another thread, and now i'm wondering how other atheists -- especially the hardcore ones -- here would answer it.

this isn't about proving or disproving any particular viewpoint, but just an attempt to understand a mindset that seems... well... beyond my understanding.

<g> first, though, here are a couple of terms defined as used in the context of my inquiry.. science: the objective study of the natural world.. spirituality: an intangible aspect of nature/the universe (including humanity) that may or may not include belief in any deity, but which is merely a general sense that something more is out there, and also within us.

Sunchild

Your definition of spiritualty is very broad.

I know, and I defined it that way on purpose. Some people I've encountered act though it's a terrible thing for me to even have a spiritual side (for the curious, I'm a Wiccan, not a Christian, and I'm not out to convert anyone), and I just don't understand why it bothers them so much, let alone why they're so hellbent on talking me out of it. That's what I'm trying to figure out here.

Fables and fairy stories are different from spirituality / religion

The topic was actually myths, not ordinary fables or fairytales. Stories of Zeus, Isis, Jesus, Kali, Etc., are very much a part of spirituality and religion, past, present or both. And in my own belief system, myths are a very imortant tool for illustrating how the seasons flow, personifying different aspects of the Divine, etc.

*Rochelle.

---------
"Most men complacently accept 'knowledge' as 'truth'. They are sheep, ruled by fear."
-- Sydney Losstarot, "Vagrant Story."

24

Science vs. Spirituality?

by Sunchild in

jw
friends

i originally posed this question to jh in another thread, and now i'm wondering how other atheists -- especially the hardcore ones -- here would answer it.

this isn't about proving or disproving any particular viewpoint, but just an attempt to understand a mindset that seems... well... beyond my understanding.

<g> first, though, here are a couple of terms defined as used in the context of my inquiry.. science: the objective study of the natural world.. spirituality: an intangible aspect of nature/the universe (including humanity) that may or may not include belief in any deity, but which is merely a general sense that something more is out there, and also within us.

Sunchild

If science can explain why meditation works, that's all it needs to do.

Yes, I know. I never said it had to do more.

I really don't think I explained this well. I've seen a lot of "Science this" and "Science that" so far, but only a tiny hint of "I think" or "I believe this way because..." which was really my main concern. I don't know if I can clarify things, and I'm sorry that I bought this up.

*Rochelle.

---------
"Most men complacently accept 'knowledge' as 'truth'. They are sheep, ruled by fear."
-- Sydney Losstarot, "Vagrant Story."

24

Science vs. Spirituality?

by Sunchild in

jw
friends

i originally posed this question to jh in another thread, and now i'm wondering how other atheists -- especially the hardcore ones -- here would answer it.

this isn't about proving or disproving any particular viewpoint, but just an attempt to understand a mindset that seems... well... beyond my understanding.

<g> first, though, here are a couple of terms defined as used in the context of my inquiry.. science: the objective study of the natural world.. spirituality: an intangible aspect of nature/the universe (including humanity) that may or may not include belief in any deity, but which is merely a general sense that something more is out there, and also within us.

Sunchild

What you said about meditation and science is not correct.

All I said was that meditation is a spiritual practice which has been scientifically proven to have positive health effects. Since when was meditation no longer considered a spiritual practice, and you've said yourself that it has positive effects. I get the feeling you're not listening to me.

And yes, I'm the person you had in mind. I've sent you an e-mail.

*Rochelle.

---------
"Most men complacently accept 'knowledge' as 'truth'. They are sheep, ruled by fear."
-- Sydney Losstarot, "Vagrant Story."

24

Science vs. Spirituality?

by Sunchild in

jw
friends

i originally posed this question to jh in another thread, and now i'm wondering how other atheists -- especially the hardcore ones -- here would answer it.

this isn't about proving or disproving any particular viewpoint, but just an attempt to understand a mindset that seems... well... beyond my understanding.

<g> first, though, here are a couple of terms defined as used in the context of my inquiry.. science: the objective study of the natural world.. spirituality: an intangible aspect of nature/the universe (including humanity) that may or may not include belief in any deity, but which is merely a general sense that something more is out there, and also within us.

Sunchild

Larc, check your e-mail.

*Rochelle.

---------
"Most men complacently accept 'knowledge' as 'truth'. They are sheep, ruled by fear."
-- Sydney Losstarot, "Vagrant Story."

24

Science vs. Spirituality?

by Sunchild in

jw
friends

i originally posed this question to jh in another thread, and now i'm wondering how other atheists -- especially the hardcore ones -- here would answer it.

this isn't about proving or disproving any particular viewpoint, but just an attempt to understand a mindset that seems... well... beyond my understanding.

<g> first, though, here are a couple of terms defined as used in the context of my inquiry.. science: the objective study of the natural world.. spirituality: an intangible aspect of nature/the universe (including humanity) that may or may not include belief in any deity, but which is merely a general sense that something more is out there, and also within us.

Sunchild

No, for once the cause is discovered it ceases to be spirituality and becomes solely silence.

Why can't it be both at once? Meditation has been proven to be good for a person's health, but it's still considered a spiritual practice.

Maybe this is hard for me to understand or explain because, to me, everything is part of the whole, and very few things (if any) are mutually exclusive. I know this must be about as much fun as explaining "red" to a colorblind person, but if possible, I'd really like to understand how people can see things as being so... separate. I want to understand other people a bit more, so that I can relate to them better instead of feeling frustrated by our differences.

*Rochelle.

---------
"Most men complacently accept 'knowledge' as 'truth'. They are sheep, ruled by fear."
-- Sydney Losstarot, "Vagrant Story."

25

Deism- A Religion for the 21st Century?

by Big Jim in

jw
friends

deism - a religion for the 21st century?.

more than 200 yrs ago deism made its mark on history.

many noteworthy people including a number of the founders of the united states were deists.

Sunchild

I go back to the theme of my last post. The only way to bring the unknown into the known is through science.

Yes, I know, and I kind of feel like I'm going around in circles with this.

Again, I have no interest in all is supplanting science with spirituality and/or religion. I just don't understand why so many people seem to think that if you acknowledge one, you can't believe the other, too. To me, the concepts are not mutually exclusive.

Regarding your special feeling while meditating with a candle and a statue of Isis and your card readings. These are simply nice ways for you to get in touch with yourself.

Which is a likely possibility. However, I also think it's possible that there's something more to it, and I don't understand why some people seem so determined to exlcude that possibility. I don't see why anyone would want to. To reach for the Divine is to reach for your own highest potential... or at least that's what it is for me. Symbols and such are just useful tools for getting there.

*Rochelle.

---------
"Most men complacently accept 'knowledge' as 'truth'. They are sheep, ruled by fear."
-- Sydney Losstarot, "Vagrant Story."

24

Science vs. Spirituality?

by Sunchild in

jw
friends

i originally posed this question to jh in another thread, and now i'm wondering how other atheists -- especially the hardcore ones -- here would answer it.

this isn't about proving or disproving any particular viewpoint, but just an attempt to understand a mindset that seems... well... beyond my understanding.

<g> first, though, here are a couple of terms defined as used in the context of my inquiry.. science: the objective study of the natural world.. spirituality: an intangible aspect of nature/the universe (including humanity) that may or may not include belief in any deity, but which is merely a general sense that something more is out there, and also within us.

Sunchild

Francoise,

Of course, it is necessary for religion to "get real" in the area of science. It must give up its pleasing fables and other ear tickling behaviors.

Personally, I think myths are a valuable part of the human experience -- as long as we don't take them literally. They can provide a lot of insight into the universality of certain human behaviors and prinicples, as well as being useful for illustrating certain lessons and relationships in nature. The key is to take them for what they are and not insist they must be "real" to be of value.

More and more progress will be achieved in the field of science until not only evolution must be accepted by the most hard-bitten fundy, but progress in the field of quantuum physics will convince the most hard-bitten materialistic, deterministic scientist of the existence of God.

I think I love you. As odd as this may sound, quantum physics is the main basis of my spirituality. I didn't even realize this until I read a bit on the subject, but it all fits together very well. "God," as I see it, is simply the energy source from which everything else came; the gods and goddesses we worship are only a convenient way of relating to this energy, of which we are all a part and wish to feel connected to; ultimately, everything in existence is part of this same energy.

*Rochelle, at one with the universe.

---------
"Most men complacently accept 'knowledge' as 'truth'. They are sheep, ruled by fear."
-- Sydney Losstarot, "Vagrant Story."

24

Science vs. Spirituality?

by Sunchild in

jw
friends

i originally posed this question to jh in another thread, and now i'm wondering how other atheists -- especially the hardcore ones -- here would answer it.

this isn't about proving or disproving any particular viewpoint, but just an attempt to understand a mindset that seems... well... beyond my understanding.

<g> first, though, here are a couple of terms defined as used in the context of my inquiry.. science: the objective study of the natural world.. spirituality: an intangible aspect of nature/the universe (including humanity) that may or may not include belief in any deity, but which is merely a general sense that something more is out there, and also within us.

Sunchild

Seeker,

In that sense, science has no use for such spirituality. It brings nothing to the table other than the observer's own prejudice. A scientist can't decide something just because it "feels" right, or because she just "senses" this is the right answer.

This isn't quite what I meant. What I'm asking is, do you think it's possible for scientific understanding to enhance spiritual perceptions, and/or is it possible that allowing for a spiritual factor in certain things -- like, for example, the good effects that spirituality can have on a person's mental and physical health -- might be helpful in some types of scientific research and application. I didn't ask, "Should scientists place all their research in the context of 'God' and/or their own religious beliefs." That would be silly. I was asking about the possibility of having/acknowledging one's spiritual side AND appreciating valid science at the same time, without a sense of conflict.

I wish I could define the question better. I don't know if this is coming across the way I intended it to.

*Rochelle.

---------
"Most men complacently accept 'knowledge' as 'truth'. They are sheep, ruled by fear."
-- Sydney Losstarot, "Vagrant Story."

24

Science vs. Spirituality?

by Sunchild in

jw
friends

i originally posed this question to jh in another thread, and now i'm wondering how other atheists -- especially the hardcore ones -- here would answer it.

this isn't about proving or disproving any particular viewpoint, but just an attempt to understand a mindset that seems... well... beyond my understanding.

<g> first, though, here are a couple of terms defined as used in the context of my inquiry.. science: the objective study of the natural world.. spirituality: an intangible aspect of nature/the universe (including humanity) that may or may not include belief in any deity, but which is merely a general sense that something more is out there, and also within us.

Sunchild

I originally posed this question to JH in another thread, and now I'm wondering how other atheists -- especially the hardcore ones -- here would answer it. This isn't about proving or disproving any particular viewpoint, but just an attempt to understand a mindset that seems... well... beyond my understanding. <g> First, though, here are a couple of terms defined as used in the context of my inquiry.

Science: The objective study of the natural world.

Spirituality: An intangible aspect of nature/the universe (including humanity) that may or may not include belief in any deity, but which is merely a general sense that Something More is out there, and also within us. It has nothing to do with any specific system of belief.

My question is, Do you believe that science and spirituality are diametrically opposed, or do you believe they can work together to create a synergistic effect? Or do you believe something different entirely? Please tell me what you think in as much detail as you like, because I'm genuinely curious. I'm especially interested in the knowing reasons behind your perceptions, particularly if you think that science and spirituality are mutually exclusive.

I know it's pretty cheesy to pose a question and then not answer it yourself, but I promise I'll get to it later.

*Rochelle, the eternal questioner.

---------
"Most men complacently accept 'knowledge' as 'truth'. They are sheep, ruled by fear."
-- Sydney Losstarot, "Vagrant Story."