Science vs. Spirituality?

Sunchild

I originally posed this question to JH in another thread, and now I'm wondering how other atheists -- especially the hardcore ones -- here would answer it. This isn't about proving or disproving any particular viewpoint, but just an attempt to understand a mindset that seems... well... beyond my understanding. <g> First, though, here are a couple of terms defined as used in the context of my inquiry.

Science: The objective study of the natural world.

Spirituality: An intangible aspect of nature/the universe (including humanity) that may or may not include belief in any deity, but which is merely a general sense that Something More is out there, and also within us. It has nothing to do with any specific system of belief.

My question is, Do you believe that science and spirituality are diametrically opposed, or do you believe they can work together to create a synergistic effect? Or do you believe something different entirely? Please tell me what you think in as much detail as you like, because I'm genuinely curious. I'm especially interested in the knowing reasons behind your perceptions, particularly if you think that science and spirituality are mutually exclusive.

I know it's pretty cheesy to pose a question and then not answer it yourself, but I promise I'll get to it later.

*Rochelle, the eternal questioner.

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"Most men complacently accept 'knowledge' as 'truth'. They are sheep, ruled by fear."
-- Sydney Losstarot, "Vagrant Story."

Francois

I don't for a second believe that there is any conflict between science and religion. Each and every time that religion has taken science on, religion has had eventually to flee from the contest, tail tucked firmly between the legs.

Of course, it is necessary for religion to "get real" in the area of science. It must give up its pleasing fables and other ear tickling behaviors.

For instance, although progress in the final proof of the theory of evolution seems slow, it's coming. And in the not too distant future, each and every piece of that particular puzzle will be in place. And when it is, how silly and ignorant will the adherents of so-called "creation science" look.

There can be no disagreement between science and religion. This is precisely because the God of religion is the uncaused cause of science and philosophy.

Think. We have not progressed through four hundred years of scientific realization only to arrive at the unchangeable now. More and more progress will be achieved in the field of science until not only evolution must be accepted by the most hard-bitten fundy, but progress in the field of quantuum physics will convince the most hard-bitten materialistic, deterministic scientist of the existence of God.

I hope to see this in my lifetime.

Seeker

The way you describe spirituality, it sounds as if you are describing an emtion. "Sensing" something is out there, without being able to actually rely on your senses, is more of a yearning then a sensation. It "feels" right, or it "seems" right.

In that sense, science has no use for such spirituality. It brings nothing to the table other than the observer's own prejudice. A scientist can't decide something just because it "feels" right, or because she just "senses" this is the right answer. A decision has to be made on the basis of evidence, testable, falsifiable evidence.

If scientists went on the basis of what they sense to be correct, we'd be at the whim of their every emotional state. And how can you test that?

Sunchild

Seeker,

In that sense, science has no use for such spirituality. It brings nothing to the table other than the observer's own prejudice. A scientist can't decide something just because it "feels" right, or because she just "senses" this is the right answer.

This isn't quite what I meant. What I'm asking is, do you think it's possible for scientific understanding to enhance spiritual perceptions, and/or is it possible that allowing for a spiritual factor in certain things -- like, for example, the good effects that spirituality can have on a person's mental and physical health -- might be helpful in some types of scientific research and application. I didn't ask, "Should scientists place all their research in the context of 'God' and/or their own religious beliefs." That would be silly. I was asking about the possibility of having/acknowledging one's spiritual side AND appreciating valid science at the same time, without a sense of conflict.

I wish I could define the question better. I don't know if this is coming across the way I intended it to.

*Rochelle.

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"Most men complacently accept 'knowledge' as 'truth'. They are sheep, ruled by fear."
-- Sydney Losstarot, "Vagrant Story."

larc

Sunchild,

I posted my original thought on this subject on the Deism thread and added a follow up comment.

By the way, are you the woman who lived in Flint and recently moved to Ann Arbor? I am going to be in Flint this weekend to visit old friends and go to the art fair. If you are the right person and if you could travel back to Flint, I would enjoy talking to you at the fair. If so, please respond yet this evening, as I am leaving early in the morning. (I won't be on route 23, so I can't stop in Ann Arbor.)

Sunchild

Francoise,

Of course, it is necessary for religion to "get real" in the area of science. It must give up its pleasing fables and other ear tickling behaviors.

Personally, I think myths are a valuable part of the human experience -- as long as we don't take them literally. They can provide a lot of insight into the universality of certain human behaviors and prinicples, as well as being useful for illustrating certain lessons and relationships in nature. The key is to take them for what they are and not insist they must be "real" to be of value.

More and more progress will be achieved in the field of science until not only evolution must be accepted by the most hard-bitten fundy, but progress in the field of quantuum physics will convince the most hard-bitten materialistic, deterministic scientist of the existence of God.

I think I love you. As odd as this may sound, quantum physics is the main basis of my spirituality. I didn't even realize this until I read a bit on the subject, but it all fits together very well. "God," as I see it, is simply the energy source from which everything else came; the gods and goddesses we worship are only a convenient way of relating to this energy, of which we are all a part and wish to feel connected to; ultimately, everything in existence is part of this same energy.

*Rochelle, at one with the universe.

---------
"Most men complacently accept 'knowledge' as 'truth'. They are sheep, ruled by fear."
-- Sydney Losstarot, "Vagrant Story."

SixofNine

More and more progress will be achieved in the field of science until not only evolution must be accepted by the most hard-bitten fundy, but progress in the field of quantuum physics will convince the most hard-bitten materialistic, deterministic scientist of the existence of God.

Or not. There, that's better, isn't it?

JW72

I think until science disproves creation, there is no need for it to be conflictive with spirituality, if u know what I mean.

You can't argue with scientific fact, nor can you with faith!

Chris

Seeker

What I'm asking is, do you think it's possible for scientific understanding to enhance spiritual perceptions, and/or is it possible that allowing for a spiritual factor in certain things -- like, for example, the good effects that spirituality can have on a person's mental and physical health -- might be helpful in some types of scientific research and application.

No, for once the cause is discovered it ceases to be spirituality and becomes solely silence. For example, there is some physical cause between the apparent link of spirituality and good health. Eventually science will discover what that physical cause is on the cellular or genetic level and then it won't be mysterious at all. It will be science, not spirituality.

Can spirituality guide science into the proper pathways. Perhaps. If a scientist notices, for instance, certain traditional means of medical cures, it could guide the scientist to investigate what is actually happening medically. But that's about all I can see for a connection.

larc

Seeker,

The link between spirituality and good health is already known. People who are "spiritual" have better diets, don't smoke, over drink, and take drugs. Furthermore, their belief in something better, whether it is encouragement from close friends or help from an unknown spirit world helps their immune system. It is the belief that cures, not the validity of the belief.

Science vs. Spirituality?

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