Pterist
JoinedPosts by Pterist
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Matthew 10:23
by pixel in"23when they persecute ?you?
in one city, flee to another; for truly i say to ?you, you?
will by no means complete the circuit of the cities of israel until the son of man arrives.".
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Matthew 10:23
by pixel in"23when they persecute ?you?
in one city, flee to another; for truly i say to ?you, you?
will by no means complete the circuit of the cities of israel until the son of man arrives.".
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Pterist
*** The "Son of Man" event expected in the synoptic gospels and the Book of Parables does not correspond to what occurred in AD 70. In fact, this is probably why the gospel of Matthew, written later than Mark, revises the Olivet discourse to distinguish the parousia from the destruction of the Temple and to emphasize a theme of apparent delay in the fulfillment of "all these things", as Christians were still waiting for them to be fulfilled for quite some time after AD 70.****
The two references to the coming/ presence of the Son of man, is one with Observable events and one with NO observable events.
In MHO the former event that Jesus said would come with visible signs And would be fulfilled in that generation, was fulfilled on that Jewish nation that ceased to exist in 70AD. The later event with no visible signs like a "thief in the night" is yet to come on the Gentile/ Christian world.
Shalom.
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Matthew 10:23
by pixel in"23when they persecute ?you?
in one city, flee to another; for truly i say to ?you, you?
will by no means complete the circuit of the cities of israel until the son of man arrives.".
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Pterist
Partial Preterism of the amillenism type, should not be confused with hyper Or FULL Preterism !
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Matthew 10:23
by pixel in"23when they persecute ?you?
in one city, flee to another; for truly i say to ?you, you?
will by no means complete the circuit of the cities of israel until the son of man arrives.".
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Pterist
Yes, there are several "appearance/presence" of Christ in the NT without it being the final return, E.G. Paul and Stephen. Also at the destruction of Jerusalem as follows:
Matthew 26:64. Jesus told him, "You said it. I am telling you then, that henceforth you shall see the Son of Man sitting from the right of the Power and coming over the clouds of heaven." (Aramaic Bible)
ORIGINAL CONTEMPORARY TESTIMONIES
Josephus (A.D. 75) - Jewish Historian"Besides these [signs], a few days after that feast, on the one- and-twentieth day of the month Artemisius, [Jyar,] a certain prodigious and incredible phenomenon appeared; I suppose the account of it would seem to be a fable, were it not related by those that saw it, and were not the events that followed it of so considerable a nature as to deserve such signals; for, before sun-setting, chariots and troops of soldiers in their armour were seen running about among the clouds, and surrounding of cities. Moreover, at that feast which we call Pentecost, as the priests were going by night into the inner [court of the] temple, as their custom was, to perform their sacred ministrations, they said that, in the first place, they felt a quaking, and heard a great noise, and after that they heard a sound as of a great multitude, saying, "Let us remove hence" (Jewish Wars, VI-V-3).
“A supernatural apparition was seen, too amazing to be believed. What I am now to relate would, I imagine, be dismissed as imaginary, had this not been vouched for by eyewitnesses, then followed by subsequent disasters that deserved to be thus signalized. For before sunset chariots were seen in the air over the whole country, and armed battalions speeding through the clouds and encircling the cities.” (rendered in Chilton)
Tacitus (A.D. 115) - Roman historian "13. Prodigies had occurred, but their expiation by the offering of victims or solemn vows is held to be unlawful by a nation which is the slave of superstition and the enemy of true beliefs. In the sky appeared a vision of armies in conflict, of glittering armour. A sudden lightning flash from the clouds lit up the Temple. The doors of the holy place abruptly opened, a superhuman voice was heard to declare that the gods were leaving it, and in the same instant came the rushing tumult of their departure. Few people placed a sinister interpretation upon this. The majority were convinced that the ancient scriptures of their priests alluded to the present as the very time when the Orient would triumph and from Judaea would go forth men destined to rule the world." (Histories, Book 5, v. 13).
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Matthew 10:23
by pixel in"23when they persecute ?you?
in one city, flee to another; for truly i say to ?you, you?
will by no means complete the circuit of the cities of israel until the son of man arrives.".
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Pterist
NIV Study Bible Notes (1985 Edition)"The saying [Matthew 10:23] seems to teach that the gospel will continue to be preached to the Jews until Christ's second coming." (Matt 10:23)
NIV Study Bible Notes (1995 Edition)Matthew 10:23: "Jesus' saying here is probably best understood as referring to his coming in judgment on the Jews when Jerusalem and the temple were destroyed in A.D. 70." (Matt 10:23)
G.R. Beasley-Murray (1954)"Thus, from early times scholars have acknowledged that the saying has to do with the parousia of Jesus. Today the majority of scholars unhesitatingly adopt this viewpoint." (Jesus and the Kingdom of God, p. 286)
The Four Gospels Commentary "When they persecute you in this city, flee into the next . The apostles were not to meet obduracy with obduracy. Moving as swiftly as they could along the line of least resistance, they would not be able to evangelize all the Jewish cities before the time set for their desolation--before the Son of man should come in the demonstration of his judicial power and destroy the Jewish nationality." (in loc.)
Wayne Jackson (2003)
"The most compelling position, in this writer’s judgment, is that argued by numerous respectable scholars (e.g., J.W. McGarvey, Albert Barnes, F.F. Bruce, D.A. Carson, R.C.H. Lenski, Theodor Zahn, W.W. How, J. Barton Payne, etc.), namely that the “coming” event of Matthew 10:23 is the Roman invasion of Palestine, which occurred in A.D. 66-70." (What is the Meaning of Matthew 10:23)Dr. Edward Robinson'The coming alluded to is the destruction of Jerusalem and the dispersion of the Jewish nation; and the meaning is, that the apostles would barely have time, before the catastrophe came, to go over the land warning the people to save themselves from the doom of an untoward generation; so that they could not well afford to tarry in any locality after its inhabitants had heard and rejected the message" ('The training of the Twelve, p. 117).
Dr. Walter W. Wessell (1995)Matthew 10:23: "Jesus' saying here is probably best understood as referring to his coming in judgment on the Jews when Jerusalem and the temple were destroyed in A.D. 70." (Matt 10:23,NIV Study Bible Notes, p. 1453)
Albert Barnes (1832)"Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, &c. That is, in fleeing from persecutors from one city to another, you shall not have gone to every city in Judea till the end of Jewish economy shall come." (in loc.)
Geneva Bible Notes (1599)10:23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have {i} gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.
(i) Bring to an end, that is, you will not have gone through all the cities of Israel and preached in them. (in loc.)
John Gill (1809)"ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, or "finished" them; that is, their tour through them, and their ministry, or the preaching of the Gospel in them,
"till the son of man be come; either of his resurrection from the dead, when he was declared to be the Son of God, and when his glorification began; or of the pouring forth of the Spirit at the day of Pentecost, when his kingdom began more visibly to take place, and he was made, or manifested to be the Lord and Christ; or of his coming to take vengeance on his enemies, that would not have him to rule over them, and the persecutors of his ministers, at the destruction of Jerusalem." (in loc.)
B.W. Johnson (1891)"Till the Son of man be come. A reference primarily, no doubt, to the Lord coming into his kingdom. See #Mt 16:28. He was thus to come in the life time of some of the apostles. He did thus come in the establishment of his kingdom in power on the day of Pentecost. He also came in judgment on the Jews at the destruction of Jerusalem. This event ended Jewish persecution. There is also the final coming to judge the world, but the meaning here does not include that." (in loc.)
C. Jonathan Seraiah "It is true that the "eschatology" of the New Testament is predominantly preterist. For those unfamiliar with the preterist perspective, it is the ancient view that many of the eschatological passages of the New Testament were fulfilled (completely) in the destruction of Jerusalem in a.d. 70. This view may sound novel, but in reality there have been orthodox adherents to it throughout church history (e.g., Clement of Alexandria, Eusebius, John Lightfoot, John Owen, Milton Terry, Jay Adams). This interpretation does not deny the Final Coming of Christ; it merely finds that not all "coming" passages refer to that event. The preterist interpretation is actually the most faithful to the biblical text because it recognizes that Old Testament prophetic terminology was used by the New Testament authors. This recognition is helpful in distinguishing the prophecies of Christ's coming that were near, in the first century (Matt. 10:23; 16:28; 24:30; 26:64; 1 Thess. 5:2; 2 Thess. 1:7; James 5:7-9; 1 Pet. 4:7; Rev. 1:3, 7; etc.) and thus fulfilled in a.d. 70, from those that were far (John 5:28-29; Acts 1:11; 17:31; 1 Cor. 15:23-24; 1 Thess. 4:16; 1 Jn. 3:2; etc.) and thus not yet fulfilled even in our day. It also helps to distinguish between a spiritual "coming" (invisible for temporal judgment, as in a.d. 70) and a physical coming (visible for eternal judgment)." (End of All Things)
Philip SchaffThe Second Advent of Christ "This being so, then the words relating to a personal return of Jesus are to be taken as pointing to the Destruction of Jerusalem (Mat. x.23; xvi.28)."
John Wesley (1754)"Till the Son of man be come - To destroy their temple and nation." (in loc.)
Bishop Pearce"I say unto you; ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel till the Son of Man be come, i. e. the gospel would not be particularly and fully preached to the cities of Israel, before the ruin of the Jewish state, and his taking vengeance on it" (Observations on the Whole Bible, in loc.)
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Evidence regarding Daniel 11 & Antiochus IV
by Bobcat ini was doing research on daniel 8 and 11. what i was wondering was if there was any evidence that the jews saw daniel 8 and 11 fulfilled in antiochus iv.. the explained fulfillments (re: antiochus; non-wt explanations) make a lot of sense, but what specifically i was wondering was if the jews (after the time of antiochus iv) saw the daniel prophecies as being fulfilled in him?
or if there are any threads that discuss this, a link would be appreciated.. thank you in advance.. take care.
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Pterist
Thanks for the info Leolaia
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Evidence regarding Daniel 11 & Antiochus IV
by Bobcat ini was doing research on daniel 8 and 11. what i was wondering was if there was any evidence that the jews saw daniel 8 and 11 fulfilled in antiochus iv.. the explained fulfillments (re: antiochus; non-wt explanations) make a lot of sense, but what specifically i was wondering was if the jews (after the time of antiochus iv) saw the daniel prophecies as being fulfilled in him?
or if there are any threads that discuss this, a link would be appreciated.. thank you in advance.. take care.
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Pterist
http://oyc.yale.edu/religious-studies/rlst-145/lecture-23#ch5
RLST 145: INTRODUCTION TO THE OLD TESTAMENT (HEBREW BIBLE
Overview
The Book of Ruth, in which a foreign woman enters the community of Israel and becomes great-grandmother to none other than King David, expresses a view of gentiles entirely opposed to that of Ezra and Nehemiah. Other prophets of the Restoration period are discussed, including Third Isaiah who also envisions other nations joining Israel in the worship of Yahweh. This period also sees the rise of apocalyptic literature in works like Zechariah, Joel and Daniel. Written during a period of persecution in the 2 nd c. BCE the book of Daniel contains many features and themes of apocalyptic literature, including an eschatology according to which God dramatically intervenes in human history, destroying the wicked (understood as other nations) and saving the righteous (understood as Israel).
Assignment
Bible:
(1) Isaiah 56-66
(2) Introduction to Joel (JSB pp. 1166-7), Joel 1-4
(3) Introduction to Daniel (JSB pp. 1640-42), Daniel 1-12Lecture Chapters
- The Book of Ruth [ 00:00:00 ]
- The Last Prophetic Books [ 00:11:58 ]
- Features of Apocalyptic Literature [ 00:23:05 ]
- Apocalyptic Passages in Post-Exilic Books [ 00:29:11 ]
- The Book of Daniel, Chapters 1-6 [ 00:35:21 ]
- The Book of Daniel, Chapters 7-12 [ 00:42:36 ]
Course Media
TRANSCRIPT
htmlAUDIO
mp3LOW BANDWIDTH VIDEO
mov [100MB]HIGH BANDWIDTH VIDEO
mov [500MB] </form> -
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Final prayer after fieldservice today.
by El_Guapo inhi guys,.
i was asked to give final prayer today after the field service meeting.
i asked for jah to bless and comfort the families of the newtown, ct massacre.
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Pterist
WOW, well we become like whatever our God is, in this case a cold, non feeling, organisation.
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The 144,000
by dabster ini was reading in revelation 7 yesterday, where the 12 tribes of the sons of israel are named and where we learn that 12,000 from each tribe are sealed.
how do the jws explain that the 144,000 are identified as israel - and identified so specifically that the 12 tribes are named?
be gentle with me when answering.
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Pterist
St G of E.......
as I said """ SUBJECT TO CHANGE.""""""
When the harvest is gathered, notive that the wheat is MATURE, fully grown in Christ. if this occured in 1914, we are not looking at a feeding program, we a looking at a ruling in glory......
The WBTS changes show it is just another religion/cult finding its way, NOT a fully matured harvest, ready for action.
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My Birthday, Jesus Birthday, and Whats Really Pagan
by RayPublisher inhey folks i recently celebrated my very first birthday party!
there was a big "one" candle on the cake and we had a blast.
it felt great to be "normal" and just do what other people do.
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Pterist
Job apparently saw no problem with birthdays as he did not stop his children from regularly celebrating their own special days (Job 1:4,5; 3:1-3). And Abraham had no problem giving a party for Isaac when he was weaned, a celebration of his special day. (Gen 21:8) The Watchtower concludes that since the early church did not celebrate birthdays, we must not either. A birthday is in reality nothing more than an anniversary of a special event. Although the early church did not celebrate birth anniversaries, they did celebrate the anniversary of the death of the saints. The Watchtower allows the celebration of wedding anniversaries which is the celebration of the birth of the marriage. The Watchtower had no problems with celebrating their own 100th anniversary of the birth of their organization. Yet at the same time they disfellowship and condemn to eternal death those who celebrate the anniversary of one's birth. How can one celebrate the birth of an organization but not celebrate the birth of one's mate? Surely if the Watchtower is right, the same God who destroys people forever for celebrating the anniversary of their birth would not thinking lightly of people who celebrate the anniversary of their wedding or the anniversary of an organization's birth.
