Apognophos

Joined

• started 43 topics
• posted 4,400 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by Apognophos

• 
  18

  ‘Thank you Jehovah for the GB’s unapologetic manner in providing these adjustments.’

  by Joepublisher1 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i was shocked when i heard a circuit overseer include a strange comment in his concluding prayer at the end of this sundays meeting concerning the adjustments discussed in the watchtower.

  he said, in part (and im paraphrasing) thank you jehovah for the governing bodys unapologetic manner in providing these adjustments.

  i thought to myself, what a strange expression to make in prayer to god!

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Apognophos

  That is the paraphrase, and the CO is probably a tool

  Aren't they all? I agree with slimboyfat, the turn of phrase does make sense from a "company man" standpoint, though it does make the GB sound like a rude chiropractor.
• 
  66

  The 144,000 and the Great Crowd of Revelation

  by Leolaia in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  8-11; ch.

  as in ch.

  like the "great crowd", they are "of every race, language, people, and nation (cf.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Apognophos

  Well said, never a jw. Personally, I joined this forum partly for Leolaia posts, but I'm glad she no longer posts!! Know why? Because (1) she covered a massive range of topics in her years here, and I'm not sure there was anything left to cover in her usual thorough manner (besides the occasional new light), and (2) she must have spent countless hours on her posts. Think of how much she could have done with her time if she wasn't posting! So I feel that she is taking a much-deserved vacation. I do hope she'll come back to make the occasional post and keep up with any future "new light" announcements.
• 
  44

  Who came up with the phrase TTATT? When?

  by dazed but not confused in

  1. social
  2. current

  who came up with this term and when?

  is there a specific member that the credit goes to or did it just develop over time?

  was it used in the beginning of this site or is it taken from another site?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Apognophos

  I was reading documents from 1917 the other day written by Rutherford and others that referred to the religion as "the Truth". I see uses of the term in Zion's Watch Tower from 1879 onward. But really, any numbers of believers would have used this expression over the years, because it's found in the Bible. See 2 Tim. 2:18 and 2 John 1:1 for two clear examples of referring to Christianity as "the truth".

  As for "the truth about the truth", I can only really search the Internet for old records of the phrase, which isn't a precise way of tracing word origin and history, but perhaps it serves well enough for our purpose. My findings are that this is an expression first used by non-Witnesses, such as in the post-modern philosophy book The Truth about the Truth by Walt Anderson, copyright 1995.

  In a JW context, the oldest hit on "the truth about the truth" that I can find is the post by Scorpion here on 2/16/01: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/2729/1/Grounds-for-Disfellowshipping. A close second is Moridin advertising his site by that name here on 2/18/01: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/2760/1/Need-Some-Help (we know it had that name based on his post here: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/2829/1/Newsletter). When you think about it, it's a fairly obvious play on words, so I doubt either of them were the first or the 100th to use it.

  Now, finding the oldest occurrence of "TTATT" was a bit trickier, but so far it looks like it's here: http://www.jwstruggle.com/2011/10/finding-serenity-and-enduring-in-our-struggle-after-learning-the-truth-about-the-truth-ttatt/. Any older references are welcome if they can be found.
• 
  9

  Nice Icon!

  by tec in

  1. forum
  2. suggestions

  on the name of the forum.

  love the little man with the briefcase.

  just wanted to say so.. .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Apognophos

  It is nice, but honestly what would really make me happy is an apostrophe in "Jehovahs". I know that the apostrophe is not in the URL, but one could still put a sort of lightly-shaded "ghost" apostrophe between the 'h' and the 's' to make it grammatical. Just my two cents, as a grammar nazi.
• 
  88

  If the big change at the AGM meeting is dropping the literal 144,000...

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the best conjecture seems to be that the gb are going to drop the literal 144,000 teaching, especially in view of the december watchtower that pointedly does not mention the 144,000 number.

  if they are dropping the literal 144,000 number, but still claim that only a small number are anointed, and can partake, and that only a few are left on earth, then it is fair to ask what has really changed?

  they are simply clearing up the embarrassing situation that there were obviously more than 144,000 "anointed" believers from 36 ad until now, and that the number of partakers has been increasing in recent years.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Apognophos

  Great post, sbf, I was just thinking about this earlier this morning -- that in the old days, big changes were sometimes made proactively (i.e., the eventual bans on Christmas, birthdays, smoking...), but these days, the GB only seems to react.

  I think it's interesting to note here (again, if this turns out to be true) that the reason the "two hopes" teaching, specifically the part about the great crowd living on earth, was introduced in 1935 was the increasing number of Witnesses and the delaying of Armageddon putting a strain on the "literal 144,000" interpretation. To now jettison the literalness of the number, after all these decades, would be highly ironic.
• 
  40

  R U DFshipped?

  by DFshipped in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i am a dfshipped person who is working towards reinstatement.. i would like to meet anyone else who also would like to return.. i really would prefer not to meet people who want to criticize my desire to return.

  i would like to enjoy and offer encouragemnt to others like me.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Apognophos

  Try a different browser, dude.
• 
  14

  WTS admits (indirectly) decreasing in U.S. publisher ratio to population

  by Gayle in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  service year reports:.

  2010 - 1/259.

  so, the wts is not keeping up with the u.s. population (and they know it), though it rants about increasing pubs., etc..

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Apognophos

  Yes, true, it does indicate some of the potential for future growth. Of course, if a higher than normal number of JWs were fading or DFed than in the past, then we would see a larger gap develop between publishers and Memorial attendance (representing those fringe JWs who only show up for the Memorial). And perhaps in today's increasingly secular and Internet-connected world, maybe, just maybe the conversion rate of "interested ones" attending Memorial is also going down, so that for every million attendees above the publisher count, fewer will become JWs. One can hope, anyway.

  What surprises me about Gayle's numbers is that I had thought the ratio in the U.S. was less than 200 non-JWs to a JW, not more than 200.
• 
  14

  WTS admits (indirectly) decreasing in U.S. publisher ratio to population

  by Gayle in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  service year reports:.

  2010 - 1/259.

  so, the wts is not keeping up with the u.s. population (and they know it), though it rants about increasing pubs., etc..

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Apognophos

  Why are we talking about Memorial attendance in this thread? Isn't the declining publisher ratio as highlighted by Gayle more important?
• 
  88

  If the big change at the AGM meeting is dropping the literal 144,000...

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the best conjecture seems to be that the gb are going to drop the literal 144,000 teaching, especially in view of the december watchtower that pointedly does not mention the 144,000 number.

  if they are dropping the literal 144,000 number, but still claim that only a small number are anointed, and can partake, and that only a few are left on earth, then it is fair to ask what has really changed?

  they are simply clearing up the embarrassing situation that there were obviously more than 144,000 "anointed" believers from 36 ad until now, and that the number of partakers has been increasing in recent years.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Apognophos

  Maybe because it's hard to convince Bible studies to swallow the teaching? I'd argue it's the most baseless assertion in WT teaching -- 1914 has World War I in its favor, the blood teaching has scriptures about avoiding blood... but 144,000 is literal "just because".
• 
  88

  If the big change at the AGM meeting is dropping the literal 144,000...

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the best conjecture seems to be that the gb are going to drop the literal 144,000 teaching, especially in view of the december watchtower that pointedly does not mention the 144,000 number.

  if they are dropping the literal 144,000 number, but still claim that only a small number are anointed, and can partake, and that only a few are left on earth, then it is fair to ask what has really changed?

  they are simply clearing up the embarrassing situation that there were obviously more than 144,000 "anointed" believers from 36 ad until now, and that the number of partakers has been increasing in recent years.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Apognophos

  Thanks for the speculative pre-emptive clarification If this does happen, I think we'll have to bump this thread a few times for some folks on JWN who misunderstand the new light. At least, based on how I've seen past new light misunderstood ("You mean the F&DS aren't appointed yet? Then why do the rank and file have to listen to them?").