Posts by Apognophos

35

Cedar's 'Why The Watch Tower Society Is Already In Decline"

by Dogpatch in

jw
friends

why the watch tower society is already in decline.

good article, cedars.. http://www.freeminds.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=3236:why-the-watch-tower-society-is-already-in-decline&catid=31:governing-body&itemid=346.

it's also on the front page of freeminds.org.

Apognophos

Good thread. Can anyone provide an update to FatFreek 2005's translated language counts for the Awake! on page 1?

20

New Light on the New Light!!

by The Searcher in

just discovered that the 'new light' regarding the the identity of the 'slave' is not so new.

in the brochure "who are doing jehovah's will today?

", (brought out months before the annual meeting) it clearly states in the first paragraph in section 19 that "jesus would appoint the slave - during the time of the end!!

Apognophos

I wonder if you're right, 00DAD. I thought I understood the new teaching, but now for the first time I'm confused about it.

22

The sin of Sodom and Gomorrah- What does the bible REALLY teach?

by irondork in

as with most doctrines, the belief that the bible condemns homosexuality is multi-layered and allegedly supported by several scriptures.

when he raised his eyes he got to see the man, the traveler, in the public square of the city.

let me bring them out, please, and you rape them and do to them what is good in your eyes.

Very interesting, thanks irondork. And I am shocked that I don't recall reading that scripture in Ezekiel about Sodom before. I am beginning to learn that my Bible education as a Witness was more selective than I thought.

83

Final prayer after fieldservice today.

by El_Guapo in

hi guys,.

i was asked to give final prayer today after the field service meeting.

i asked for jah to bless and comfort the families of the newtown, ct massacre.

Apognophos

Can you imagine if Jesus was standing there and heard that, or even Paul? They would have gone medieval on that elder's ass. He would have voluntarily stepped down in shame after they were done with him.

97

Jehovah's Witnesses dismayed by new magazine format from Watchtower Society.

by Balaamsass in

jw
friends

wow.

i was surprised this week by calls from active jws complaining about the new magazine format, and more begging for money from the platform.. frankly i was surprized by this reaction since this is old news to jwn members.

i guess actually shuffling to the bookroom and grabbing the new "awake tracts" minus the inside cover forward ...awakened many sleepy, catatonic, bored jws who never read the things or go on the internet anyway.. any feedback from other areas?.

Apognophos

Wow, your first post, and you signed up in 2009? :)

Sometimes I ask myself why JWs are so afraid to examine their beliefs -- don't they want to be sure they have the truth? -- but then I remember that most have a lot to lose if everyone else doesn't feel the same way they do. Family and friends, their entire social circle, would have to also agree to leave the org. Better not to rock the boat. I remember being shocked when the Book Study was eliminated, but I didn't hear other JWs say a negative word about this obvious loss of "spiritual food".

44

the dumbest thing a CO ever said

by nowwhat? in

"if it was'nt for the preaching work there would be millions more witnesses" - he was saying jehovah wants quality not quantity.. si i'm thinking, what's the difference as long as he has a people that live by bible standards and are moral.

maybe sharing their hope and faith with friends and relatives on a casual basis?

how backwards is that?.

Apognophos

Of course, the congregations had their way of ignoring the crazier or more unpopular declarations by the CO. Often there would be a show of agreement until his visit ended, while quietly admitting to each other that we didn't agree with his counsel. Sometimes a CO would come through who hated field service breaks, and we'd make an effort to take fewer or shorter breaks until his reassignment, and when the next CO turned out not to have a hate of field service breaks, we'd heave a sigh of relief and go back to the normal 20-30 minute mid-morning break. So the stupider stuff that came out of the COs' mouths tended not to be followed religiously. The semi-stupid stuff would be semi-followed. But it seems like COs were helpful for some of you in making you wake up, so I guess they can do some good after all!

143

A thought experiment about what it means "to be" GOD

by Terry in

all believers in god begin with the premise that he is the creator.. but-stop!.

go back one step.

what about before god was a creator.. creation is the "beginning" for the created--but--not for god.. .

Apognophos

I agree that Terry's suggestion is unfair -- that because we have trouble conceiving of God, our weak conception somehow makes God lesser. If God exists, he is not dependent on our ability to conceive of him, any more than the laws of physics are dependent on our understanding of them. At one time, humans had a very weak understanding of physics, but those physical laws were just as valid as they are now; at least, I don't see anyone suggesting that they have gotten stronger or more complicated since our descriptions of them have become more confident and precise. Even when scientists believed in a cosmic ether, or in phlogiston, or in spontaneous generation, the real universe kept on ticking regardless.

That's an interesting suggestion, prologos. It has occurred to me in the past that we might exist in God's mind altogether, as a sort of thought experiment. One way or another, it could be that our existence is totally dependent on him, moment to moment. Certainly your idea would explain how God can know all things, although it's also hard for me to grasp the concept of God being time just as it's hard to grasp the idea of His having no beginning.

At the same time, as someone who works with computers, it's hard to shake the idea that we might be in a giant simulation, run by more advanced beings. They might be no more like God than a person who sits down to play The Sims on his PC and watches sim-people go about their sim-lives and satisfy their sim-needs until he gets bored and shuts down the computer for the day. The goal of our universe, their experiment, might simply be to see what happens, just for fun. In fact, a game of Civilization might be more accurate than a game of Sims.

To take things back to Terry's point, his initial assertion that the idea of God does not make sense simply lacks weight with me because there are aspects of science that make just as little sense. Why should a hazy collection of interstellar gas give rise to a rocky planet with water, where organic compounds form into cells? That's absurd! Perhaps true, but still absurdly hard to imagine! Why should these early cells have a desire to replicate and survive? They were just bags of water and long strings of atoms forming carbon-based compounds! How silly! How is it that light behaves as a wave without a medium to travel through, and that quanta, building blocks of matter, have indefinite states until observed?

Why, if I wanted to mock scientific theories based on current gaps in their explanations, or on their seeming far-fetched, we'd be here all day! But Schrödinger attempted to do that with his rhetorical cat, and look where that got him. If we are really closer to the truth today than we were before quantum theory, then Einstein, Schrödinger and others have egg on their faces! If such smart people can be wrong in doubting in concepts that they had trouble understanding, what does that mean for you, Terry? :)

20

So you're DA'd... No I'm not... Yes you are... No I'm not...

by Calebs Airplane in

wtf is the wt doing to the minds of the brethren???.

this morning i went to the post office at 7:50am to pick up a package.

turns out the mail box section was open at 8am but the actual post office didn't open until 8:30am... rather than drive home and come back later i decided to get out my car and wait on a nearby park bench.

Apognophos

It was probably a fear that he was talking to an apostate, or else he just realized that he didn't have much in common with you anymore if you weren't zealous about the "truth" anymore. Yes, as a supposed Christian, he should have inquired as to what the matter was, and whether he could help, but if your side of the conversation had the tone that I got from your description, it would have been clear to him that you weren't interested in being "helped" and perhaps you were even proud of being inactive. So what obligation did he have to stand there, or to care about the difference between "disassociated" and "inactive"? Didn't you make your stance fairly clear to him?

10

THE TWO BABYLONS to joining the United Nations: a history of DECEPTION

by Terry in

for the first time the society (fred franz) began teaching that "babylon the great" fell in a spiritual sense in 1919. therefore if one can say anything about this so-called "watchman class" and 1919 and "babylon the great", it.

signaled a fall for ancient babylon.. .

"(ibid p.585).

Apognophos

Terry, either I have serious deja vu or you repeated some text :)

But thank you for this post. I became familiar with Hislop while researching his claims of Tammuz and Semiramis, and I suspected that his math was a little funny. It was striking to me how his work was clearly a predecessor to Russell et al. Some of the material here was definitely new to me. Can you give some examples of scholars being misquoted on their stance on John 1:1?

143

A thought experiment about what it means "to be" GOD

by Terry in

all believers in god begin with the premise that he is the creator.. but-stop!.

go back one step.

what about before god was a creator.. creation is the "beginning" for the created--but--not for god.. .

Apognophos

Hmm, the photo's meaning is lost on me. Perhaps that means the joke's on me.

Well, I just wanted to clarify that I was in no way claiming to have any answers. To me, personally, it seems to be common sense that if God created the universe, God must be outside of time, and that therefore he can see all of (our) time at once. Perhaps, EntirelyPossible, you don't think that's self-evident; if not, I can't think of how to prove it to you, so I'll just shrug and let bygones be bygones.

Ultimately, I agree with Terry that any attempt to conceive of God is futile from a human standpoint. I see no evidence of God directly, but I do see evidence of design, or at least intent. I don't see evidence of a Judeo-Christian God who observes a sparrow falling to the ground, and numbers the hairs on our head, but I do see evidence that someone wanted us to develop safely on this planet, nestled in a safe place in a stable galaxy with a great big stabilizing moon and protective outer planets. But since I can't prove anything, I can only live my life the same as anyone else.

So I doubt I have anything further to add to the discussion, but thanks for listening. I guess that's the difference between an agnostic and a believer (Christian, atheist, etc.) -- I have no desire to proselytize. Exchanging ideas and speculation is fun, but because I don't believe that I have access to any real answers, there's nothing that I absolutely have to share with others for their own benefit, nor do extended debates hold my interest.