That's not all, Bangalore. I heard that Elvis is now reigning over the earth from heaven, invisibly of course.
Apognophos
JoinedPosts by Apognophos
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5
The Watchtower elite are shabby Elvis impersonators!
by Terry in(note: in the following,remove the name elvis and substitute the name jesus.
there are many elvis impersonators are there not?
if all you've ever heard and seen is elvis impersonations isn't your grasp of all things elvis pretty much at the mercy of the impersonator?.
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THIS NEEDS ITS OWN THREAD:: TODAY's WT Paragraph 16
by Lied2NoMore inhere is what got my spidey senses tingling: paragraph 16, reference to daniel p mannix book, was wondering if his statement was mis-quoted so i did my research.......but was even more shocked when i saw this: .
from amazon dot com reviews................ probably the most provocative work of historical fiction published this century,"those who are about to die" is pure mannix at his best.
a uncensured exploration of what likely took place in the circuses of ancient rome.
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Apognophos
Thanks for bringing this back on track AnnOMaly. It's important to get the facts straight on this kind of issue or else we all look like fools for doing the same thing we're accusing the Society of doing, which is not checking sources properly. The substance of the quote seems historically accurate, then, yes?
As transhuman68 confirmed, it seems that someone in Writing simply recycled a long-used quotation. They no doubt assumed that if it was good enough for the Aid and Insight books, it's good enough now, rather than taking a more rigorous and professional approach to the job and going back to the source. So if anything can be learned from this, it's that (1) someone was sloppy in the 1960s Writing Department and (2) the modern writers are too trusting in the old literature and a tad lazy.
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Social aid and the Witnesses
by Aaron Eldridge in*** g 5/08 p. 21 is philanthropy the answer?
***by fully addressing the root causes of human suffering, god will accomplish what is well beyond all humans, individually and collectively.
accordingly, rather than set up philanthropic organizations, jehovahs witnesses, in imitation of jesus christ, prefer to devote their time and financial resources to announcing the good news of [gods] kingdom.matthew 24:14; luke 4:43.. i have collected a few quotes like this one but could use some more.
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Apognophos
How does WT in the OP.. get away with saying "in imitation of Jesus Christ, prefer to devote their time and financial resources to announcing the “good news of [God’s] kingdom."
In their eyes, the healing and resurrections that Jesus performed were just to prove that he could do it; to foreshadow what he would do as King. So the Society can safely ignore that sappy stuff and focus only on his ministry as a preacher.
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Anyone noticed a curiosity on the Memorial Invitation for 2013 ?
by EdenOne ini can't scan the memorial invitation for 2013, but i was looking at it today and noticed something curious on the front drawing.. we have jesus as the central figure of the composition.
to his right and bottom, a large crown, in colour, of shiny happy people of diverse origins.. separated from this by the figure of jesus, is another group, a much smaller one, on the left and as if ascending to the top, and grayed.. clearly portrayed in this group is the face of ct russell and apparently william tyndale.
but then, also sarah and abraham and other personalities of the ot seem to be represented there.
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Apognophos
Who is that?
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The Watchtower elite are shabby Elvis impersonators!
by Terry in(note: in the following,remove the name elvis and substitute the name jesus.
there are many elvis impersonators are there not?
if all you've ever heard and seen is elvis impersonations isn't your grasp of all things elvis pretty much at the mercy of the impersonator?.
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Apognophos
For some reason I'm humming "Personal Jesus" now.
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Elders' Gems of Wisdom
by stephenw20 inmy dad asked the co about this one.
mat 27:52-53. and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, .
and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
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Apognophos
Thanks for bumping, great stuff here.
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JW Bombed
by LouBelle inon friday the 1st of march, i went to my cousins 21st birthday celebration - she has never been a jw.
my other cousins (twins) were introduced by my mother to the faith over 20 years ago (they are now 38) and got baptised when they were about 19. they both weren't that "strong" in the faith and married "worldly partners" and stopped going to meetings.. they knew i had left and i presumed they knew i was disfellowshipped for apostacy.. at the party the one twin came over to me and we chatted about life etc and she says "oh carl is going to start studying" - i looked at her a little odd and asked what it was as he already had a financial degree.
"no silly, he is going to study the truth" my face must have been a picture and in a very high voiced squeaked why would he ever consider that, he is an intellecutal guy....... she continued about how the people had changed and were so much better than when we were younger.
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Apognophos
They're making that up. There's no increasing liberalization in Witness beliefs taking place (except for maybe where they legally have to, like the no-blood teaching). Your family members are just getting away with more than they used to, in their specific congregation or their current circle of JW friends.
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Is this a religion run by PSYCOPATHS?
by Terry inglibness/superficial charmgrandiose sense of self-worthpathological lyingconning/manipulativelack of remorse or guiltshallow affect (genuine emotion is short-lived and egocentric)callousness; lack of empathyfailure to accept responsibility for own actionsthe hare psychopathy checklist-revised by robert d. hare, 1991. multi-health systems, 908 niagara falls blvd, north tonawanda, new york, usa, 14120-2060. psycopaths do not feel empathy but learn to imitate those who do.
psychopaths don't even understand charity.. .
i was thinking today how much psycopathy is reflected in the governing body leadership and especially manifested in policy.. jehovah's witnesses are not led by people devoted to charity, benevolence, outreach or social provision for those less fortunate which.
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Apognophos
I take a more moderate view of this issue. I agree with the indications of psychopathic personality, but I disagree with the motivation for it. Religion is only about power for a few. Most people are attracted to religion for the same reason they are attracted to a certain political party, and more broadly it's the same reason why they root for a sports team or invest in popular stocks; it's about security. It makes people feel safer to be in a group, and on top of the emotional satisfaction that comes from tribalism, religion can provide answers (intellectual satisfaction) for the problems in our lives.
I think that the people at the top, i.e. the GB, have gotten good at ignoring their consciences (a sociopathic indicator), but they still believe on some level that they are perpetuating something good, albeit flawed, that serves an important purpose. They see the flaws in the teachings, but they still believe they are closest to the truth! Some may even be more jaded, and believe that they aren't closer to the truth than some other groups, but nevertheless God chose them as his representatives so they need to keep doing what they are doing, and hopefully improve the doctrine a bit more as they go. Keep in mind that these are people who (unless they are flat-out lying) genuinely believe that God anointed them with holy spirit. They therefore extend that dogmatic certainty to the organization as a whole -- "we are chosen, therefore this org. must be chosen".
Psychological studies* have shown that the majority of humans will engage in cruel behavior, not for personal gain, but in the name of following orders. Whether those orders come from other men, or (so they believe) from God, makes little difference.
*I think we all know about the infamous Stanford prison experiment. Although there are valid criticisms of its results, if one reads the details of the experiment and its criticisms, I think you'll find that the results are applicable to the Witness religion. Other experiments mentioned in the WP article have partially confirmed Zimbardo's results, so I'm comfortable saying "studies", plural, in the above statement. This is probably deserving of a separate thread if there isn't one already.
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A conversation about universal sovereignty
by outsmartthesystem in"well osts, satan, through adam challenged god's right to rule......so god had to let it play out to show that he really should be the one ruling mankind.
both the angels and humans needed to see this.
me - why couldn't god have allowed adam's children to remain perfect?
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Apognophos
Good points, nowwhat. And not only did the Devil rebel, but "a third of the stars", although I don't know when that was supposed to have happened (maybe not until the pre-Flood era?). Yet the rest of the angels get to stay in heaven in perfect conditions, whereas we get kicked out of Eden simply because we're related to two other humans who sinned. Also, why do humans need to be imperfect in order to prove they are willing to worship God, when Adam and Eve sinned while they were perfect? Not only do we have to labor under the lack of the the perfect self-control they (supposedly) had, but on top of that, as you pointed out, we have to live in a world 'lying under the power of the wicked one'.
It seems pretty clear to me that the original accounts of the Garden of Eden and Job were merely attempts to explain human suffering, in terms that sound simplistic to us today: (1) our parents did something wrong (the same reason why they used to believe someone would be born blind -- because his parents sinned), and (2) the Devil is testing us. I don't even think this business about people being "perfect" and "imperfect" has any basis in scripture; it was just supposition by later religious thinkers, predicated on the assumption that God wouldn't create anything imperfect.
If you look back at the earliest (Yahwist) accounts in the Bible, though, they're from a simpler time. Those thinkers saw no reason why man should be perfect because even God was just a very powerful man to them. He formed Adam out of clay like a potter, blew life into the man's nostrils with His breath, and then made Eve from one of his ribs. When A&E sinned, YHWH noticed they were missing on one of his daily strolls through his creation, and had to ask where they were. He then kicked them out of Eden so they couldn't keep eating from the tree of life and prolonging their lives beyond those of the animals. The End.
Only later did Jewish and Christian thinkers introduce the idea of God being the "absolute", the Alpha and the Omega, with perfect justice, wisdom, power, etc. This is where theodicy comes into the picture; there's no "problem of evil" that needs explanation in the earlier worldview because nothing was perfect from the start, and YHWH was just one god-man of many. It's only when we start insisting on attributing absolute perfection to God that you run into thorny issues like "How does perfect love interact with perfect justice without lessening it? How can God allow evildoers to harm good people in the name of justice without overriding his perfect love? Why does a perfectly loving God require us to serve him, or else die? How can God know the future and yet we still have free will?" Etc., etc., etc.
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THIS NEEDS ITS OWN THREAD:: TODAY's WT Paragraph 16
by Lied2NoMore inhere is what got my spidey senses tingling: paragraph 16, reference to daniel p mannix book, was wondering if his statement was mis-quoted so i did my research.......but was even more shocked when i saw this: .
from amazon dot com reviews................ probably the most provocative work of historical fiction published this century,"those who are about to die" is pure mannix at his best.
a uncensured exploration of what likely took place in the circuses of ancient rome.
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Apognophos
I think we can all agree that his book is clearly NOT a scholarly work.
Yes, and really, if his passage about Christians was based on a scholarly work, then the Society should have been quoting the original work, not the novel writer's derivative of it. So the Writing Department has definitely made some kind of mistake here; how large it is remains to be seen.