Posts by Pierre1977

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

Pierre1977

It means that it's not fully rebuilt. And that Tyre would not be populated at all is not what Ezekiel predicted because he sais that fishermen would spread their nets there. So, the presence of many buildings there doesn't mean it's a false prediction — it would only be if Tyre once again attained its former power which Ezekiel predicted should not happen. If anything, Beirut is the Lebanese city that has the most influence in the Northwestern Levant. I still believe the Bible.

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

Pierre1977

‘Maybe Hillah is in a different direction’ (but there is irrigated farmland in the other directions anyway).

And since when does farmland count as an rebuilt city?

🤦‍♂️ And no, the modern city of Tyre isn’t in a different location, and includes the Sidonian Port that was used to conquer the city from the north after the causeway plan failed (and the heritage protected area in the south-west are Roman ruins).

I only claimed that Tyre isn't fully rebuilt, not that not any part of it is rebuilt. All of Tyre should be rebuilt to make the prophecy unfulfilled. And Tyre should have the glory of Ancient times, too, as I said:

And “not being found” again raises the question: In what way found? Clearly not simply by the location because Ezekiel said Fishermen would be there. So, “not being found” doesn't mean not being located by anyone, but not in the condition of a mighty and wealthy port city like Tyre once was.

You continue:

Quite smart, and significantly more than you.

“He that praises himself spatters himself.” — Romanian proverb

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

Pierre1977

Yeah, sure, totally not trying to ‘poison the well’. Just your totally normal way of consistently referring to people. 🤦‍♂️

Indeed, I wouldn't have said anything if you simply called me Christian. I don't think calling you by your beliefs is an attack.

You really imagine everyone in Babylon lived in that little patch of ruins a few hundred metres across? 😂

No, but maybe they lived behind the ruins and not in the direction to Hillah. After all, Hillah doesn't surround the ruins from all sides.

There’s a whole city there. And we’ll just ignore the verse about Tyre not even being found. 😂

The city doesn't occupy the whole Ancient Tyre. It's not congruent. And “not being found” again raisesthe question: In what way found? Clearly not simply by the location because Ezekiel said Fishermen would be there. So, “not being found” doesn't mean not being located by anyone, but not in the condition of a mighty and wealthy port city like Tyre once was.

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

Pierre1977

Gotta love the irrelevant ad hominem.

An argumentum ad hominem is an attack against the person. My intention was not to attack you. If you were a Hindu, I would have written "The Hindu Jeffro wrote:", and if you were a Muslim, I would have written "The Muslim Jeffro wrote:". I just named your affiliation to your world view, to get the people to understand who we are talking about. That's also why I introduced myself as Bible believing Christian at the beginning. I don't want readers to be left in the dark and guess my ideological beliefs as they read along. And I would not have criticized you if you wrote "The Christian Pierre1977 wrote:". If you already consider naming your position an attack upon your person, that tells a lot about the position you are advocating.

Anyway, I think Jonsson would be glad that others are continuing to point out JW lies.

Didn't I tell you that I don't care about the Jehovah's Witness' fixation on 538 vs. 537 B. C. E.? If you want to argue with Jehovah's Witnesses, go to scholar JW. I discussed other topics having to do with the reliability of the Bible. And here Jonsson would support me because he was also a Christian. Not that that necessarily matters, I don't use this argumentum ad verecundiam, but you mentioned him first as supporting you, although this is obviously not the case here.

There is no evidence Ezra had even been born yet in 538BCE let alone officiating as a priest, particularly since he was still alive in 457BCE when he went from Babylon to Jerusalem (and continued living for some time after that). A Jewish priest had to be at least 30, so unless you think Ezra was 111 when he traveled to Jerusalem in 457 BCE, then you’re obviously wrong. Hence the details of the stories are obviously conflated with Ezra’s much later journey to Jerusalem.

I don't see anything wrong with someone being over 110 years old. Ezra was blessed my God. Moses was even 120 at the end of his journey. You may say: “That's unlikely!” But isn't that the same logic as the Jehovah's Witnesses and scholar JW with his “It's unlikely that they were so fast to still make it in 538 B.C.E.”? Well, guess what, unlikely things do happen. But it's not impossible for humans to be that old.

If you want to hear the Witness' excuse of this "Biblical error", you'd have to ask scholar JW. But I know that many Jews and other Christians have good other explanations, suggesting that this priest Ezra during Zerubbabel's travel was a different priest than the later one who also wrote the book. The idea is based on some priest listing of this supposed first Ezra somewhere in Nehemiah, though I would have to look this up.

But I believe in a 111 year old man being blessed by God!

Which means Tyre is still a definite failure. And so is Babylon since Hillah occupies the same land with only a small heritage protected area of ruins a few hundred meters across.

Actually, Hillah is adjacent to Ancient Babylon, but not on it. The ruins of Ancient Babylon are still there. Concerning Tyre: Although the prophecy says in Ezekiel 26:14 says that Tyre won't be rebuild, it also says that it “shall be a place for the spreading of nets”, showing that “not rebuild” doesn't mean “uninhabited“ with not anything build. Don't take everything literally like fundamentalists, examine the context. And from that, it becomes clear that “not rebuild” means that national prominence (Ezekiel 27:3), wealth, riches (Ezekiel 27:3, 4, 33), strength and security (Ezekiel 27:10, 11) would not be rebuild, hence the picture of simple fishermen living there and spreading their nets.

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

Pierre1977

And another point about the Chaldean lands: I agree that you can count the land as uninhabited if the original places where the cities stood were not rebuild. Today, there are many cities and other settlements in Iraq where the Neo-Babylonian Empire was. However, the ancient ruins are desolate and left alone. It is an extreme interpretation of the Biblical passage to demand the total depopulation of all land once occupied by the Neo-Babylonian Empire. The cities are enough to list the prediction as fulfilled. Obviously, when I had discussions with non-believers, they always said: "Yes, they were destroyed, but out of so many prophecies of cities to be destroyed, it was clear that some would fall eventually and be ruined. This doesn't prove Biblical inspiration." And I agree with this moderate postion, by itself, this doesn't prove the whole Bible, however, I disagree with them being unfilfilled because some Iraqi strips of land where original Babylonian cities were are populated today.

362

Just read that Carl Olof Jonsson died yesterday

by slimboyfat in

for newbies, who was carl olof jonsson?

he was a jw in sweden who was challenged by a householder in the 1960s, who pointed out to him that secular history books don’t agree with watchtower that jerusalem was destroyed in 607 bce, but instead place the event 20 years later.

the reason the date is important is because it is the starting date for jw chronology which leads to 1914 as the end of the gentile times, and the beginning of the last days, as jws understand it.

Pierre1977

I didn't like to have seen the start of a doctrinal discussion after a person died. This is all scholar JW's fault! Why did you start it? Don't the Jehovah's Witnesses know about the verse about throwing pearls to pigs? Do you think any Jehovah's Witness will read this here and be assured of his faith or do you seriously expect any non-believes to be convinced. You should have kept your opinion to yourself. But anyway, while we're at it I am going to respond to some points here. Note: I believe in the Bible and the Biblical God. But I don't care about the Jehovah's Witness' issue of 538 vs. 537 B. C. E. here.

Atheist Jeffro wrote:

As I already showed, the stories in Ezra and Nehemiah obviously conflate details, evidenced by the fact that they can’t decide whether it was Jeshua or Ezra who officiated.

I disagree because I don't see a contradiction. Jeshua/Joshua was the high priest at that time (Haggai 1:1; Zechariah 3:1). We know that there was always only one high priest at a time, while there were many priests. Ezra was only a normal priest according to most Jews and Christians that don't accept contradictions in the Bible. Rabbinic tradition agreed. However, Eastern Orthodox people use 1 Esdras, the uninspired Greek Septuagint version of Ezra, that describes him as high priest. Only they get a problem here. Most other groups don't: We simply think both Jeshua and Ezra officiated at that time — one as high priest, the other as normal priest, but both had leading religious roles together (and also prince Zerubbabel a. k. a Sheshbazzar as state figure).

15

Nearly complete JW literature collection for sale

by jukief in

as many of you know, alan feuerbacher spent 40 years researching watchtower.

during that time, he bought every item of watchtower literature he could find.

his collection is so big that it’s impossible for me to try to catalog it, although i might be able to get some volunteers to help me with that.

Pierre1977

Before selling this collection, Alan could see what items our community is missing as PDFs and scan the relevant publications. I found the following publications which are missing:

1890: New Testament, by Joseph B. Rotherham, second edition
1902: Holman Linear Parallel Edition (with Berean Bible study helps)
1907: Watch Tower Bible (King James Version with Berean Helps) (Bible Students Edition, Berean Bible)
1908: Watch Tower Bible (Berean Bible) (new edition)
1926: The Emphatic Diaglott (Originally 1902, 1926 printing)
1944: American Standard Version (Originally 1901, 1944 printing)
1950: New World Translation of the Christian Greek Scriptures (original) (avoidjw has only the 1951 edition)
1961: New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures (avoidjw has only the 1970 edition)
1963: New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures (revised)
1971: New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures English (1971 revision)

1995: Family Care and Medical Management for Jehovah’s Witnesses

1882: Outlines of Sermons

1907: Instructor’s Guide and Berean Index

1908: The Wonderful Story of God’s Love

1909: Berean Questions on Tabernacle Shadows of the Better Sacrifices

1909: Studies in the Scriptures (six booklets bound with cover like Studies in the Scriptures series)

1910: Berean Studies (Questions) on The At-one-ment Between God and Man

1911: Berean Studies (Questions) on The Divine Plan of The Ages

1912: Berean Studies (Questions) on The Day of Vengeance (The Battle of Armageddon)

1912: Berean Studies (Questions) on The Time Is at Hand

1912: Berean Studies (Questions) on Thy Kingdom Come

1914: Berean Studies on The New Creation

1914: Suggestive Hints to New Colporteurs (avoidjw has only the 1912 edition)

1920: Tabernacle Shadows of the Better Sacrifices (with appendix and study questions)

1920: Can the Living Talk With the Dead? (avoidjw has only Talking with the Dead)

1927: Questions on Deliverance

1931: A Testimony (avoidjw has only the 1932/33 edition)

1934: Information by the Peoples Pulpit Association, To the Honorable Federal Communications Commission, Broadcasting Division

1934: In Rebuttal—To the Honorable Federal Communications Commission, Broadcast Division

1936: Christianity Is Not Free in the United States of America

1937: Christianity Is Not Free in Lagrange, Georgia

1942: “The New World” Study Questions

1943: “The Truth Shall Make You Free” Study Questions

1944: “The Kingdom Is at Hand” Study Questions

1966: Kingdom Ministry School Course—Outline of Program and Notes

1970: “Look! I Am Making All Things New” (revised)

1974: Dwelling Together in Unity (revised)

1982: Dwelling Together in Unity (revised)

1986: Victory Over Death—Is It Possible for You? (for Hindus)

1989: Dwelling Together in Unity (revised)

1993: The Government That Will Bring Paradise (revised)

1994: Planned Giving to Benefit Kingdom Service Worldwide

1996: Dwelling Together in Unity (revised)

2004: Dwelling Together in Unity (revised)

2013: Jehovah’s Witnesses and Disaster Relief

1930-today: every Watchtower Publications Index (1930-1960, 1961-1965, 1966-1970, 1971-1975, 1976-1980, 1930-1985, 1986-1990, 1986-1995, 1986-2000, 2001-2005, 2001-2010)