By the way Cofty, if we carry on the conversation, we're gonna go off topic.
So, Is faith self-defeating? YES! That's my answer.
We can move thread if you want.
Skedaddle
JoinedPosts by Skedaddle
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56
Why Faith is Self-Defeating
by cofty inthe god of christian theism values faith.. "without faith it is impossible to please god, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists" - heb.11.
faith and evidence are inversely proportional - the more evidence there is that god exists the less faith you need in that proposition and vice-versa.. so how can a christian criticise any other faith-based belief?
for example they can protest that all the evidence is against the claims of scientology, but that just means that scientologists require more faith than christians.
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56
Why Faith is Self-Defeating
by cofty inthe god of christian theism values faith.. "without faith it is impossible to please god, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists" - heb.11.
faith and evidence are inversely proportional - the more evidence there is that god exists the less faith you need in that proposition and vice-versa.. so how can a christian criticise any other faith-based belief?
for example they can protest that all the evidence is against the claims of scientology, but that just means that scientologists require more faith than christians.
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Skedaddle
Hiya Cofty,
I suspect you meant to say "divide a number by zero" but what does maths have to do with the subject of faith Skedaddle?
Because if you are looking for evidence Cofty, we both have to be discussing it in the place where evidence is produced. Right?
You've been down the rabbit hole Cofty, right?
I'm not interested in the story Cofty, if you get me. I'm interested in YOUR CONCLUSION. What did you find?
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83
if you had the slightest of doubt about leaving leaving the watchtower org. go to to jwsurvey.org NOW!
by nowwhat? inand we are suposed to trust these guys with our lives?
!
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Skedaddle
That old "keep your eyes on the prize" hall tune is now in my head!
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56
Why Faith is Self-Defeating
by cofty inthe god of christian theism values faith.. "without faith it is impossible to please god, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists" - heb.11.
faith and evidence are inversely proportional - the more evidence there is that god exists the less faith you need in that proposition and vice-versa.. so how can a christian criticise any other faith-based belief?
for example they can protest that all the evidence is against the claims of scientology, but that just means that scientologists require more faith than christians.
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Skedaddle
Hiya cofty,
Cofty, if you divide a number into zero, what is the result?
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56
Why Faith is Self-Defeating
by cofty inthe god of christian theism values faith.. "without faith it is impossible to please god, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists" - heb.11.
faith and evidence are inversely proportional - the more evidence there is that god exists the less faith you need in that proposition and vice-versa.. so how can a christian criticise any other faith-based belief?
for example they can protest that all the evidence is against the claims of scientology, but that just means that scientologists require more faith than christians.
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Skedaddle
Thank you Simon for pointing that out. I believe all religions to be false, yes.
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Why all the secrecy in Gods organisation?
by Truthexplorer inlooking back and seeing all the secrecy and cover ups throughout wt history such as the secret elders books, the branch correspondence guidelines, the shameful lying and deceipt exposed during the arc questioning, the in-house way of dealing with things, the lack of openness to the media on issues such as blood or child abuse or anything controversial for that matter.
could this relate in some way to russell's alleged past as a freemason?
it seems quite strange that the founder of the bible students quite possibly may have been a freemason, (an organisation well known for its secrecy).
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Skedaddle
Are the GB freemasons? Possibly
Are the GB just men who are sincerely dumb? Possibly
Are the GB sincere men who are dumb and just handed an organization to run from a mason past? Possibly
Are the GB sincere men but work alongside without knowing, freemasons who are pulling strings? Possibly
Is the whole concept of Watchtower a false religion based on very controversial teachings and beliefs that resonates with certain secret societies some of whom have a bigger plan or agenda, still to this day? YES!
Whatever the story is, as my sister pointed out to me, some policies can't be changed due to the amount of people who would sue their asses. Blood policy is one, two witness rule is another. But indeed, it may not be the only motivation.
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56
Why Faith is Self-Defeating
by cofty inthe god of christian theism values faith.. "without faith it is impossible to please god, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists" - heb.11.
faith and evidence are inversely proportional - the more evidence there is that god exists the less faith you need in that proposition and vice-versa.. so how can a christian criticise any other faith-based belief?
for example they can protest that all the evidence is against the claims of scientology, but that just means that scientologists require more faith than christians.
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Skedaddle
Faith is the tool of all false religions that JUST wants FOLLOWERS.
False religions use this tool by trying to block the path to God. One way is by putting themselves physically between followers and God (think GB, Pope, etc.) Another way is to ingrain a simplistic understanding of what God is, who God is (think the various versions of God or Gods as a seperate entity to us, jesus, satan, the holy spirit, animals, plants, planets, the universe... and a God who has the traits of man (Anthropomorphism).
Faith has no place in the true belief in God. Why? Because true belief in god has moved from the place of faith, which is unstable, to KNOWING. This KNOWING is not a place that has a return to the place of faith. KNOWING is a place that starts from an undetermined point of connection (because the point is unique to the individual), to total absolution of absorption becoming at one.
To be forced into proving that God exists to another person is not something that any one of us can do unless we ourselves are near to absolution or to put it another way, close to becoming at one with God. I say close to because if we were to be at one with God absolutely, we would no longer be visible to the naked eye of the human. Widely recognized true ''prophets'' (Jesus (Not the Christian version), Mohammed (Not the Muslim version), Moses (Not the Christian version) etc.) across the world and throughout history were on the path to absolution. It is the path of endless possibilities and rendered messages to us that were of the same sort. There was a need to write these messages down to provide just one chance of a gate to the way as it is already known that many would distort the words but this gate is only the shortcut, it is NOT the only way for the way that always exists and will always exist was born into us and that is the ability to ''read'' - this ''reading'' is not of written words, it's the other kind, interpret.
Unless we are at total absolution or at one with God we cannot comprehend 100% what God is, for if we could we would be God but this is not a deterrent to try and do so but rather our mission to do so if one chooses to do so. We know that no two people are born exactly the same and our experience of life is different for every one of us. We live different varying experiences of love and evil and no two experiences are felt the same way by any one of us due to varying levels of understanding so how is it possible for one person to tell another person what God is? It is not our plight or it should not be our plight for it is not needed and if we were to do so, would be asking that person to have ''faith'' in us, the one telling. Our only plight should be to show you the way to ''read'' what God is or who God is for yourself (It's this place where GB, Pope etc insert themselves). It is up to the individual to connect. However, some have come to the ''level'' of understanding or interpretation that is close to absolute oneness, These ones were (incorrectly) called prophets but this word is incorrect for they were not sent (this is a false religion concept) they aspired and became. They were interpreters or relayers or another similar word. There is no need for another, unless the word from the last one is removed to just ONE person who does not tell another (This is a point for further discussion for anyone who believes that there is a force behind trying to make this happen) and there was no need for the first one until the capacity of understanding was enough (evolution). It can be understood therefore that Adam and Eve or the various notions that exist of them were the first with capacity (the capacity to name something else) and NOT the first as in created whole as a finished intelligent human capable of understanding or interpreting God.
Therefore, we don't need faith to believe that God exists - there's simply no use for it. It is a man-made invention to corrupt. For if you have faith you have not come to KNOW God, you have only put faith into another's word of what he/they understand as God or what he/they want you to understand.
Just FYI; I am not talking from the standpoint of any Religion (and certainly not my own). I don't assign myself a follower of any religion. They are only the ones who have the gate but can't find the gate... or who know of the gate but cover it. The path is beyond the gate. ''Read'' ''meditate'' ''pray'' ''be'' (the gates) but not through (something else or someone else), TO (directly)!
(I have no spell/grammar checker on this foreign computer, please excuse any errors.)
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What would we all do if the watchtower collapsed tomorrow ?
by stan livedeath ini would probably collapse laughing.
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Skedaddle
I'm sure we'd all get our families together to support them and try to wake them up fully if they hadn't already due to the collapse. Time would be of the essence as I have no doubt what OUTLAW says would happen. One thing is for sure, it would be the saddest victory party on earth for ex-dubs. -
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Partaking of emblems
by sloppyjoe2 inthis year will be my first for by going to the memorial.
i will get asked by my parents how i can deny jesus even if i don't believe the end is close.
my thoughts on this are as follows, bear in mind saying it's all make believe is not an option.. i think that jesus intended for everyone to eat the bread and drink the wine.
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Skedaddle
Go for it LevelThePlayingField!
Try to take note of any other new partakers!
If you're ballsy, I wonder if sitting at the front so everyone can see you do it would encourage any others...
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BBC Radio Oxford interview with author and former Witness Helen J Brown
by Skedaddle ininterview starts around 5mins in.
interview lasts for around 25 mins.. only 14 more days left to listen to this.. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p03j0g6t.
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Skedaddle
@Becksi,
No worries... nothing groundbreaking but a good general expose into dubdom policies for any listeners they had in Oxford... where all the rich kids getting educated are. Tomorrows helpers they might be:)
