Posts by elbib

43

I was disfellowshipped because of Satan

by elbib in

during co visit, i took him for a bible study i was conducting.

during the session, the householder said he believed satan was not a person, but personification of evil within us.

i left co to handle householder’s doubt.

elbib

Dear Satan,

Satan means resister--when you resist religious parasites, you are doing something good.

4

Experiences, a rose by any other name.

by M*A*S*H in

every time a jw shares an 'experience' with me (in person or on jw.borg) it always strikes me that basically what they are describing are (alleged) miracles.

in my mind, i seem to remember i was taught that miracles do not occur in today's world and ended with jesus?

have i missed something here?.

elbib

Yes I too have felt the same.

You attend a Kingdom Hall dedication (or an Assembly Hall, Branch). All the speakers would make it appear that it was made to happen because of God's invisible hand.

32

Are Witnesses really "Bible Students"?

by stuckinarut2 in

we were always told that as witnesses we were "sincere bible students".... carefully examining the scriptures.. yes, we were indeed taught much about the content of the bible, it's history, prophecies etc..... but it was always from one perspective....that of the society.

when the society changed its interpretations, we had to do the same..... so were we really "bible students", or "society students"?.

just a thought.....

elbib

If they are really Bible Students, why are Lots of leaps and jumps in interpreting the Bible

Though many examples can be given, here are some sample misapplications:

1) They arbitrarily choose certain verses and ignore others which they feel is of no use to them. For example, they profusely quote Ezekiel 18:4 (“soul that sins will itself die”) to show that man does not have an immortal soul. However, if we read the whole chapter, Ezekiel has never seen such a possibility that someone would use 18:4 to reach such conclusion. His subject is very simple: if father commits sin, father should suffer its consequence, not his son and vice versa. Then in Ezekiel 18:9 he contrasts: “soul that follows my decrees and faithfully keeps my laws is righteous; he will surely live.” However, if this righteous man has a son who turns out to be violent and sheds blood of others, “he should be put to death.” (Ezekiel 18:10-13) Thus Ezekiel is simply making a contrast between a sinner and a righteous one, and making it clear that who should be put to death (not talking about whether man has an immortal soul or not, as JWs wrongly conclude)

2) They quote Luke 17:21 (“The Kingdom of God Is Within You”) and say it means Jesus, as the future King of the Kingdom was amidst of people, hence Kingdom of God is external, to be established on earth in the future. If that is what Jesus wanted to convey, he would have definitely worded it differently. He simply used the same Greek word for “within” to mean what is “inside” when he spoke Mathew 23:26 “First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.”

Interestingly, this is something people can experiment in their own lives, and find out whether “Kingdom of God is within” or not. There are at least some who lead a simple life-style. They don’t have any expectation from others because they feel that others have freedom to act the way they like, and it is their lives) and also they don’t try to correct others (but leave that work to the authorised persons/agency). Whatever they do, they do it creatively (and make it supportive of others if at all possible). In such a simple life-style, there is always a space around them, nothing would affect them, and they would feel that they are living in Kingdom of God. Yet they also have the freedom to rust out bringing in “leaven” into their lives, as Jesus himself illustrated it in Mathew 13:33. (Leaven symbolizes sin - Luke 12:1; 1Corinthians 5:6-8; Galatians 5:9) On the contrary, people who lead just opposite life-style feel that they are living as though in hell. If wasteful and negative inner qualities can make hell (Mark 7:21; James 1:14), that would mean, productive, positive inner qualities would make one feel that he is in Kingdom of God. Apostle Paul himself had this understanding: “Kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking but of righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.”—Romans 14:17

43

I was disfellowshipped because of Satan

by elbib in

during co visit, i took him for a bible study i was conducting.

during the session, the householder said he believed satan was not a person, but personification of evil within us.

i left co to handle householder’s doubt.

elbib

WhatshallIcallmyself,

Book of Job is an attempt by someone who guessed the answer to the big question: Why does suffering exist?

Problem with book of Job is that It is God who initiates the subject asking Satan: "where do you coming from ... have you set your heart upon my servant Job, that there is no one like him on the earth." This is something a loving Father would never do because it is this initiative of God that ultimately brought suffering on Job, his family, and even on God Himself, Jesus ......

God does not need validation from others. Even you know that You do what is right--and you don't bother what others think about it. People can have varying opinions.

If someone accuses that my children stay with me because of the asset I have accumulated, I would not bother about such comments. I would just throw another practical question: SO WHAT?

43

I was disfellowshipped because of Satan

by elbib in

during co visit, i took him for a bible study i was conducting.

during the session, the householder said he believed satan was not a person, but personification of evil within us.

i left co to handle householder’s doubt.

elbib

Diogenesister,

Good point.

If Satan is taken to be a person as viewed by JWs, then it is a great problem for God who seemed to be really trapped by Satan to the point that the Almighty had to beg humanity to help Him to vindicate His sovereignty (Pro 27:11) and to ask his first-born to be killed by Satan to please Satan, and finally to declare an unrelated result that those who believe in the arrangement (punishing the innocent to please Satan) could bring forgiveness of sins.....See how much Satan makes God do senseless acts

43

I was disfellowshipped because of Satan

by elbib in

during co visit, i took him for a bible study i was conducting.

during the session, the householder said he believed satan was not a person, but personification of evil within us.

i left co to handle householder’s doubt.

elbib

vidiot,

Ttile came naturally: I was just thinking about the chronological development of my DF which started from the subject of Satan

43

I was disfellowshipped because of Satan

by elbib in

during co visit, i took him for a bible study i was conducting.

during the session, the householder said he believed satan was not a person, but personification of evil within us.

i left co to handle householder’s doubt.

elbib

steve2,

That's what exactly made me angry within myself. CO's behaviour shows how much the fear factor rules the JW org--something that cannot be the characteristics of organization of God, who is a fountain of joy.

17

The real reason so many witnesses end up here....

by stuckinarut2 in

why do so many witnesses end up coming to forums like this?.

no doubt it is because of the fact that the society disallows any form of sincere questioning of teachings or doctrines or history etc.... if there was open discussion allowed - free of repercussions and punishment, then no one would feel stifled.

if genuine concerns could be raised, then no one would feel smothered or unable to share thoughts... then in turn many would not leave.... but due to the high control, authoritarian culture the society has created, many feel trapped, and end up searching outside of official channels...and leaving the society.....

elbib

Yet they describe themselves as "Motherly organization," "spirit-guided organization" and publish article such as "Jehovah is God of reasonableness",

shows they do not know what they themselves are saying

43

I was disfellowshipped because of Satan

by elbib in

during co visit, i took him for a bible study i was conducting.

during the session, the householder said he believed satan was not a person, but personification of evil within us.

i left co to handle householder’s doubt.

elbib

stuckinarut2,

It is same as "straining out a gnat and swallowing a camel!" (Mathew 23:24) Doubting even a verse of the Bible means they immediately perceive a threat to their very existence.

43

I was disfellowshipped because of Satan

by elbib in

during co visit, i took him for a bible study i was conducting.

during the session, the householder said he believed satan was not a person, but personification of evil within us.

i left co to handle householder’s doubt.

elbib

stuckinarut2,

They can! Two elders who heard me are the witnesses. JC will put it writing that invitation was sent out to the erring one, but party refused to come.