paradiseseeker

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Posts by paradiseseeker

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  29

  Are JWs capable of a genuine discussion?

  by stuckinarut2 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was just pondering whether jws are capable of having a calm, in depth discussion about religious or faith topics?.

  i have just finished listening to a great podcast by "dogma debate" (dan) episode 333. this fantastic, in-depth conversation between a theist and an atheist was a masterful example of how a dignified conversation can take place without it resorting to abruptness or even nastiness.. jws on the other hand seem incapable of having such discussion without ending up in the following ways:.

  1)they get dogmatic and defensive if a differing view is presented.. 2)if the conversation doesn't go their way, they cut it short saying something like "well, we had better agree to disagree" or the like.. so why the arrogance?

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  paradiseseeker

  Absolutely not.

  In fact, I'm thinking of a friend of mine who is PIMI and extremely intelligent and logical. We can spend hours discussing about a lot of topics and commenting films or TV series like Game of Thrones. I admit that sometimes I get angry for her always having something to contradict me and jealous for her ability to see many different perspectives at a time and see things and motives that are not obvious.

  However, the very few times that I expressed a disagreement with JW teachings she always tried to defend the WT adopting the most astonishing positions. For instance:

  She keeps in touch with her former non-JWs schoolmates, which it's something that I absolutely approve. Thus I told her that I couldn't agree with the fact that we are expected to separate from non-JWs, specially if we are named Ministerial Servants or Elders. She replied that she sees it perfectly logical since if we are going to counsel someone about the dangers of bad asociations, we shouldn't have the same kind of friends. No comments.

  In other occasion, I told her that it was very hypocritical to invite others to attend our meeting and read our literature, but we are not allowed to attend other churchs or read any kind of religious literature apart from ours. She replied that it was because many people going down that road ended up being apostates. All those moments when we talked about hidden motives, hypocrisy and people being manipulated... gone.

  When I expressed my disagreement with child baptism, she said that we cannot judge everyone and presuppose that all of them are immature, that she herself had her mind made up on a lot of things when she was 10. Also she told me that I suffered from "the born-in illness", like some kind of immature child who is always complaining about having limits but doesn't have any idea of the dangers of the outside world.

  When one of her non-JWs friends told her about a disfellowshipped youtuber, she said that we have to be very careful with those testimonies because "we all like playing the victim".

  Finally, once she told me that I had to solve those doubts because "Satan loves taking advantage of them".

  I cannot express with words my amazement with such a huge amount of double-thinking.
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  14

  May I ask for help about Egyptian chronology and Neolithic settlements?

  by paradiseseeker in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  one of the first things that shook my faith as a teenager was learning about egypt and how its history goes back as far as 3500 bc, much earlier than the flood.

  also learning about the first settlements like çatalhöyük, which flourished around 7500 bc, much earlier than the creation of adam.

  the only answer i got from my mother was that this world is dominated by satan and thus we cannot trust in worldly chronologies.

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  paradiseseeker

  One of the first things that shook my faith as a teenager was learning about Egypt and how its history goes back as far as 3500 BC, much earlier than the Flood. Also learning about the first settlements like Çatalhöyük, which flourished around 7500 BC, much earlier than the creation of Adam. The only answer I got from my mother was that this world is dominated by Satan and thus we cannot trust in worldly chronologies.

  A more serious research about the topic made me come across some Babylon the Great's arguments (which are exacty the same that Watchtower uses): Egyptian chronology is based on Manethon's writings, which are incomplete, not trustworthy... and so on. They talk as well about the problems with carbon-14... in other words, everyone is wrong but them.

  Of course I don't buy Watchtower's arguments, but can you give some help about this topic to prepare my counterarguments? Websites, blogs, documents... anything is welcome.

  Thank you in advance.
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  31

  Are You An Angry Exjw At This Point In Your Life?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i’ve been here for many years.

  the tone seems to be different in this place.

  not so many pissed off exjws .

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  paradiseseeker

  I haven't left yet but after I woke up I experienced a phase of being angry, intransigent with those who do not leave and almost unable to shut my mouth.

  Currently I'm calm and instead of focusing on the things that this organization took away from me or my defective social skills as a result of being in a cult, I focus on the things that weren't affected by that and on my potential to overcome all these obstacles. Also, I've learned to understand and respect everyone's choice, including those who want to stay in.

  Keeping in mind what we've been through is important to help other people, but we have to move on.
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  60

  I am getting disfellowshipped

  by CitizenofEarth in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  maybe some of you remember me, maybe not.

  for general information i am now 19 years old, and living by myself.

  for the past 1 year (more like 1.5 years) i have been quietly fading out of the hypocrisy of this organization, but since i still live in the town i grew up in it has been hard, and filled with different challenges.

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  paradiseseeker

  PS: I've just read that you want to record the JC to show it to your family... I don't know them and how zealous about "the truth" they are. Just consider that they may not want to listen to it...

  In any case, if you decide to go, I would bring forth the parable of the prodigal son, and how his father ran to hug him without knowing absolutely nothing about his intentions or if he had given up his sinful lifestyle. You can try to point out that the Bibles forbids in 1 Corinthians 5:11 keeping company with "anyone called a brother", in other words, those who live a double life, not those who left.

  In the case they counterattack with 2 John 9-11, you can find some interesting information in this thread (I haven't read it all and it may not be enough to discredit them, but is the only thing I've found)

  https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/173814/societys-use-2-john-9-11-justify-total-shunning-totally-wrong

  And if you can find a Watchtower from the 40s (sorry I don't remember the exact issue) that strongly condemns excommunication, that could be funny. But that is "older light", so it will have little effect on them.

  Anyway, anything you can bring forth will make them spot you as an apostate for "twisting the Scriptures".

  Whatever you decide, good luck and congratulations for being so brave at such a young age. I'm a bit older than you and I haven't left yet, I admire you so much.
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  18

  Brotherly love in action..

  by Jrjw in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i'm so upset and angry at the same time.

  i move in less than 2 weeks and was supposed to be getting help off "brothers" to move and one of them was driving the van and now the elders have had a meeting and told the brothers they can't help coz i'm separated from my (abusive) jw husband and with moving it puts the chances of reconciliation (of which there was zero chance) even further away.

  where are these stupid rules that they come up with.

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  paradiseseeker

  Those minds are fucked up beyond redemption.
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  60

  I am getting disfellowshipped

  by CitizenofEarth in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  maybe some of you remember me, maybe not.

  for general information i am now 19 years old, and living by myself.

  for the past 1 year (more like 1.5 years) i have been quietly fading out of the hypocrisy of this organization, but since i still live in the town i grew up in it has been hard, and filled with different challenges.

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  paradiseseeker

  Don't go, as simple as that.

  Several hours questioning about your deeds and beliefs can cause a headache. There is no point in trying to convince them. Even if you could, they know they can't leave things like that and will follow the normal procedure. And of course, it would be useless as no other JW will hear what you say.

  Don't go and let them tell their wives (and the whole congregation the day after) that you are going to be disfellowshipped because of ignoring shunning, not because of apostasy. There would be still a chance to keep contact with your relatives.
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  58

  Don't you think that some people are just better off within the org?

  by paradiseseeker in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this is my first post, i will introduce myself later.

  first of all, i must say that english is not my mother tongue (i'm spanish), so excuse me if i make any mistake.. do you think that some people simply can't cope with being outside the jws?

  some of them are too worldlyphobic to be around non-jws, too dependent on a fixed set of rules in order to carry on with their lives, too dependent on the hope of paradise and resurrection, too unable to leave their personal comfort zone within the organization.

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  paradiseseeker

  ¡Muchas gracias Are you serious!¡Totalmente de acuerdo! 😂
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  16

  Is Happiness Without Religion Possible?

  by Brian J in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  according to the 11/2017 study watchtower.......apparently not.

  is it really true that one can be happy without religion?

  certainly an individual can be happy without false religion, but a person cannot be truly happy unless he has a relationship with jehovah, who is described as “the happy god.” (1 tim.

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  paradiseseeker

  Plot twist: I've never felt as unhappy as when I was most deeply in within the organization.

  The guilt feelings for not being good enough in the field service, the notion that "Jehovah" goes before the things I want, the mental barriers and self-limiting thoughts that this religion builds around you, the impotence when you see something that is unfair but you know that you'd better shut up about the whole thing, the fear of being caught in a situation that would lead to misunderstandings, the fear of losing a friend in the case he is disfellowshipped.

  Of course there are many things that this organization teaches that contribute to happiness, such as being respectful, kind, honest, clean and self-disciplined, but they can't be compared to the relieve that you feel when you wake up from all that crap and become master of your life, beliefs and choices.
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  58

  Don't you think that some people are just better off within the org?

  by paradiseseeker in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this is my first post, i will introduce myself later.

  first of all, i must say that english is not my mother tongue (i'm spanish), so excuse me if i make any mistake.. do you think that some people simply can't cope with being outside the jws?

  some of them are too worldlyphobic to be around non-jws, too dependent on a fixed set of rules in order to carry on with their lives, too dependent on the hope of paradise and resurrection, too unable to leave their personal comfort zone within the organization.

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  paradiseseeker

  I couldn't have imagined that I would love so much this thread. Thank you for welcoming me and your enriching points of view, they are priceless food for thought.

  And no-zombie, your words are very inspiring. Currently I'm PIMO and I know almost for sure that no one will follow me when I decide to take the final step, but certainly I'll be there whenever they need me.
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  58

  Don't you think that some people are just better off within the org?

  by paradiseseeker in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this is my first post, i will introduce myself later.

  first of all, i must say that english is not my mother tongue (i'm spanish), so excuse me if i make any mistake.. do you think that some people simply can't cope with being outside the jws?

  some of them are too worldlyphobic to be around non-jws, too dependent on a fixed set of rules in order to carry on with their lives, too dependent on the hope of paradise and resurrection, too unable to leave their personal comfort zone within the organization.

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  paradiseseeker

  Hi there!

  This is my first post, I will introduce myself later. First of all, I must say that English is not my mother tongue (I'm Spanish), so excuse me if I make any mistake.

  Do you think that some people simply can't cope with being outside the JWs? I do. Some of them are too worldlyphobic to be around non-JWs, too dependent on a fixed set of rules in order to carry on with their lives, too dependent on the hope of paradise and resurrection, too unable to leave their personal comfort zone within the organization. Furthermore, some would even do anything that has been forbidden to them (no matter how self-destructive it is) if they took "God" out of their lives.

  That's one reason why I think that the less invasive, the better our activism will be, as some people just can't bear it and others need to find TTATT gradually and because of their own initiative.

  Tell me your thoughts about it.