Posts by paradiseseeker

24

Are you better off as a worldly person or a JW?

by Jules Saturn in

i was having a conversation with a relative who has been inactive for several decades (part of the ‘75 generation) and he argued that a person that is a born in is better off staying in the organization rather than someone like him who lived as a “worldly” person but then became a witness later in life.

he argues that when you’re born in, all you know nothing outside of the organization, so you’re better off in than out, that’s why when born ins leave the org, they always come back.

i agree that as a born in, your social circle is composed of witnesses but i do feel that even born ins would be happier outside of the org than being in.

paradiseseeker

I could agree that in some cases born-ins are better off within the org but I don't see the point in comparing them with born-outs. I think that the born-out's path is far healthier.

A born-in will live a life of deprivation, of social awkwardness and in many cases he will stay in just because he didn't dare to look anywhere else. And if he eventually leaves the org, he will feel that he hasn't gone through several life stages that are completely normal for a non-JW and that are indeed important for self-development.

A worldly person who later in his life joins the JWs, even though I think it's a complete lie, he would make that choice freely with far more knowledge and having previously lived all that there is to live in "the otherside".

And if we are talking about if it's better for a born-in to stay or leave, I definitely say leave. Despite the initial feeling of inadequacy or lack of life knowledge, nothing is more valuable than living your life freely. Indeed, as a person who has lived behind so many barriers, he will be able to appreciate that freedom more than a regular person.

30

Personal Data Permission (Spain)

by paradiseseeker in

jw
friends

i had the meeting yesterday and there it was announced that there will be a new law passed in spain regarding personal data.

that law makes it compulsory for the wt spanish branch to collect a signed permission from the publishers to keep and utilize personal data.

no choice was given to us, we were just told to make sure we hand in our signed permissions before may 18th.

paradiseseeker

I'm totally lost in these questions. I don't have the permission form right here but when I do I will upload it and translate it for you.

From what I have read in the form and in the "privacy politics", that permission is necessary - among other things- to receive "spiritual help" and to perform theocratic privileges.

As far as I understand, refusing to sign the permission is almost equivalent to state your willingness to become inactive. This would certainly make the elders keep an eye on me and it's just not the time for me to leave yet.

30

Personal Data Permission (Spain)

by paradiseseeker in

jw
friends

i had the meeting yesterday and there it was announced that there will be a new law passed in spain regarding personal data.

that law makes it compulsory for the wt spanish branch to collect a signed permission from the publishers to keep and utilize personal data.

no choice was given to us, we were just told to make sure we hand in our signed permissions before may 18th.

paradiseseeker

I had the meeting yesterday and there it was announced that there will be a new law passed in Spain regarding personal data.

That law makes it compulsory for the WT Spanish branch to collect a signed permission from the publishers to keep and utilize personal data.

No choice was given to us, we were just told to make sure we hand in our signed permissions before May 18th. If we wanted further information we could check "Privacy Politics" on jw.org.

Could it be an advantage for me not to sign the permission?

I don't want to give my permission but I don't want to put their attention on me unnecessarily.

What do you think?

16

Any information about an apostate from the 30s?

by paradiseseeker in

jw
friends

here in spain we have just had a special visit from the central branch representative (well i'm not sure what his position is) and in his talk he mentioned an episode in which an apostate and his supporters were expelled from bethel in the early 30s under rutherford's rule.

i didn't catch the name, it was something like "shutter" or "shulter".

this event was mentioned to bring attention to a woman who was very close to this apostate and just because of that she was unfairly expelled from bethel as well, but she was "humble" and "content" enough to leave the matter on jehovah's hands and she was reaccepted in bethel after a while.

paradiseseeker

OMG!! There's actually a shitload of information about this gentleman!!

I wonder why WT keeps bringing up his name after 80 years instead of giving just vague details about the whole thing like they do with 1975 or Raymond Franz.

Thank you very much for your help!

16

Any information about an apostate from the 30s?

by paradiseseeker in

jw
friends

here in spain we have just had a special visit from the central branch representative (well i'm not sure what his position is) and in his talk he mentioned an episode in which an apostate and his supporters were expelled from bethel in the early 30s under rutherford's rule.

i didn't catch the name, it was something like "shutter" or "shulter".

this event was mentioned to bring attention to a woman who was very close to this apostate and just because of that she was unfairly expelled from bethel as well, but she was "humble" and "content" enough to leave the matter on jehovah's hands and she was reaccepted in bethel after a while.

paradiseseeker

Here in Spain we have just had a special visit from the central branch representative (well I'm not sure what his position is) and in his talk he mentioned an episode in which an apostate and his supporters were expelled from Bethel in the early 30s under Rutherford's rule. I didn't catch the name, it was something like "Shutter" or "Shulter".

This event was mentioned to bring attention to a woman who was very close to this apostate and just because of that she was unfairly expelled from Bethel as well, but she was "humble" and "content" enough to leave the matter on Jehovah's hands and she was reaccepted in Bethel after a while.

Do you have any information about this apostate?

23

Why did you leave?

by Fred Franztone in

we all have many reasons for leaving, most are doctrinal, some are emotional.

it's a religion which obsesses over factual proofs (counterfactual though they are) of its veracity rather than faith, so it's inevitable that most who leave will do so for intellectual reasons.

which doctrine above all others forced you to reconsider your position?

paradiseseeker

I haven't left yet but I certainly will.

The reason? Well... everything. The whole JW doctrine/theology/cosmology for me is as alive as a phantom of a zombie of an imaginary person: you have to limit yourself (i.e. not be 100% who you are) in order to be fit for an utopian Paradise, based on doctrines that are unreasonable and badly justified, which are defended by a bunch of people whose authority comes from a false date and false prophecy, which are based on a book of myths that claims to be written by an imaginary God.

But if you ask for which doctrine made me doubt for the first time... I guess that mandatory preaching was the thing that has bothered me since I can remember. Of course at the beginning I couldn't think of an argument to debunk that doctrine, but it planted some "anger" seeds in me that little by little made me end up thinking "fuck off" and started feeling rebel about "shunning" policy, "worldly people" and everything that came next.

13

If I were still of the anointed . . .

by compound complex in

greetings, earth-bound friends:.

i guess at this point in life, given what we all now know, we no longer harbor any delusions of grandeur.

my temporary insanity, which i've written about on other threads, was that assurance of being in heaven with jehovah and jesus and the other 143,999 kings and priests.

paradiseseeker

Would you mind if I asked you all how this process of "anointment" works? What explanation do you give to that?

I've been always very curious about this topic and it was one of the reasons that kept me asleep, because I know one of them and for me was some kind of "living proof" that God existed and supported this organization.

I've also heard about other anointed ones that left the org but in many cases they kept their heavenly call and simply moved to another religion.

Thus, I really want to know the truth about the anointment from someone who no longer believes in it.

Thank you in advance.

25

Shocking

by Freedom rocks in

their version of helping people.

totally shocking.

.

paradiseseeker

Furthermore, there are a lot of people who approach JWs just to get company or some sense of stability in their lives and the Borg doesn't have a problem with that, they indeed encourage love bombing those people.

Motives actually don't matter as long as the money doesn't go to the wrong hands.

25

Shocking

by Freedom rocks in

their version of helping people.

totally shocking.

.

paradiseseeker

They have learned from Jesus' experience: he fed 5,000 people who in most cases were not interested in Christianity and learned that he was WRONG and a NAIVE for doing that.

The GB, who is more perfect and has a better long-term view of things than Jesus, is the one we must follow now.

26

The laziness of JW parents....

by stuckinarut2 in

it struck me that the society has created a culture of lazy jw parenting.. rather than parents being there to guide and direct and help their children through all stages of life, the gb / society has become the "go-too" for everything.. if the child has an issue, there is a wt article for that.. does the child need help with something else?

ah, there is a caleb and sophia cartoon for that.. what about that other topic?

ah, there is a book for that.. so rather than being present parents, the average jw parent simply outsources their parenting to the organization!

paradiseseeker

I think that's because the average JW isn't capable of building his own morality system. He has been told that X is good because God/FDS says so, thus he hasn't gone through the process of experimenting the consequences of this or that and extract a life lesson from that. And of course, in many cases that's the way he is going to educate his son: has the GB said something about that? No? Well... I'm lost, anything will do.

I can recall a friend who came a across a woman who expressed suicide thoughts and almost the only thing he could think of to tell her was sending her Awake! articles.

The cringe was real.