by Fred Franztone 23 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
We all have many reasons for leaving, most are doctrinal, some are emotional. It's a religion which obsesses over factual proofs (counterfactual though they are) of its veracity rather than faith, so it's inevitable that most who leave will do so for intellectual reasons
So what was it for you? Which doctrine above all others forced you to reconsider your position? For me it was a combination of studying evolution & geology, the lack of evidence for the flood and 607BCE, but primarily evolution
It was the 1914 nonsense for me, I read the Book of Daniel without JW Specs on, and saw that you could not make a long term prophecy out of it, the fulfillment was right there in Daniel, in the same Chapter !
That meant : No 1914 = No 1919 Choosing of an FDS = Today's GB are CHARLATANS !
I was raised to be a lover of Truth, (still am a seeker after truth), my conscience made me leave !
I could not "sit with men of lies".
The blood ban was primary. Back when my wife and I exited....... in the mid 1960's.........rejecting a blood transfusion meant you lost the opportunity to get a life saving operation because the medical community was not as advanced as they are today and they needed to transfuse you during many kinds of surgeries.
Over the years we lost my sister at age 43 and my MIL well before her time. Due to refusing blood.
It was a reckless policy dreamed up by the arrogant, and ignorant WTBTS.
A secondary reason was the made up idea that Armageddon would set things right............ like killing off 97% of the world's population was a splendid idea.
When I yanked on those two strings the entire ball of string came apart.
It's a religion which obsesses over factual proofs (counterfactual though they are) of its veracity rather than faith, so it's inevitable that most who leave will do so for intellectual reasons
I'm not sure that this is completely accurate. They do a great job at making people believe that that's the case, but no, that's not what they are there for. Their main purpose is to exercise power over other people, not even money. Their teachings and all that study that they have to people doing is just the means, not the end.
To answer your question, being a JW wasn't my choice. That religion was shoved down my throat since I was born. As soon as I had the choice I left.
I can be very specific about what started me off learning TTAT. Someone pointed out that in the All scripture is inspired book, exactly the same sources used to establish 537/539 are rubbished for saying Jerusalem fell in 587. It seemed so obviously stupid that I started investigating further and the whole structure collapsed in front of me.
SF
I'm not sure that this is completely accurate. They do a great job at making people believe that that's the case, but no, that's not what they are there for. Their main purpose is to exercise power over other people, not even money. Their teachings and all that study that they have to people doing is just the means, not the end.
It's still an accurate description of how they work the rank and file members, regardless of their motives
The two WT articles in 2011 about 587 vs 607.
(The bold and italicized words are from me)
*** w11 10/1 p. 31 When Was Ancient Jerusalem Destroyed?—Part One ***WT is very clever to use these words, and does so consistently. A month later (in "Part 2" of the 'series) WT again takes up its "slight of hand", "slight of words" tricks, throwing questions here and there to distract you, and says:
A QUICK SUMMARY
▪ Secular historians usually say that Jerusalem was destroyed in 587 B.C.E.
▪ Bible chronology strongly indicates that the destruction occurred in 607 B.C.E.
▪ Secular historians mainly base their conclusions on the writings of classical historians and on the canon of Ptolemy.
▪ The writings of classical historians contain significant errors and are not always consistent with the records on clay tablets.
" Even if an eclipse did occur on a certain date, does this mean ..?" "But do these astronomical references irrefutably point only to the year 568/567 B.C.E.?" "However, there was also..." "If these are retrocalculations, could they really be considered absolutely reliable unless corroborated by other evidence?" "Could others have ruled between the reigns of these kings? If so, additional years would have to be added to the Neo-Babylonian period."
"The Babylonian Chronicles" What do the documents show? There are gaps in the history recorded in the Babylonian chronicles.3 (See the box below.) Logically, then, the question arises, How reliable are deductions based on such an incomplete record?
"▪ Some writings of classical historians contain significant errors and are not always consistent with the records on clay tablets."Don't forget, that "some" "Historical writings" have errors... why use those when you have business tablets for EACH year of EVERY king... WT is consistent in throwing you off guard, distracting you from reality.
"Instead of saying 70 years “at Babylon,” many translations read “for Babylon""Blah, blah, blah "at" vs. "for", right!??!!
cha ching, thanks for your post. I'm copying and saving.
Saltheart Foamfollower: Someone pointed out that in the All scripture is inspired book, exactly the same sources used to establish 537/539 are rubbished for saying Jerusalem fell in 587.
I'd like to explore that. I could probably find what you're referring to, but if you could point me to a page number or something specific, I'd appreciate it.
Darn... why did I join?
Magnum... It was the October 2011 (Pages 26-31) & November 2011 WT (pgs 22-28)...
The specific quote, about the Business tablets, was:
*** w11 11/1 PAGE 23 When Was Ancient Jerusalem Destroyed?—Part Two ***
● Business tablets.
What are they? Most business tablets from the Neo-Babylonian period are legal receipts. The tablets were dated to the day, month, and year of the reigning king. For example, one tablet states that a transaction took place on “Nisan, the 27th day, the 11th year of Nebuchadrezzar [also known as Nebuchadnezzar II], king of Babylon.”4
*** w11 11/1 PAGE 25 When Was Ancient Jerusalem Destroyed?—Part Two ***
Nebuchadnezzar II destroyed Jerusalem in his 18th regnal year.—Jeremiah 32:1.
If the 37th year of Nebuchadnezzar II was 568 B.C.E., then Jerusalem was destroyed in 587 B.C.E.
*** w11 11/1 PAGE 24 When Was Ancient Jerusalem Destroyed?—Part Two ***
Business tablets exist for all the years traditionally attributed to the Neo-Babylonian kings. When the years that these kings ruled are totaled and a calculation is made back from the last Neo-Babylonian king, Nabonidus, the date reached for the destruction of Jerusalem is 587 B.C.E. However, this method of dating works only if each king followed the other in the same year, without any breaks in between.
They throw this piece of STUPIDITY in here to make you question yourself... "Was there another king in here?" "Could there have been?" Really, the WT just asks "how many months were overlapping?" "could this mean?" .... and even if the kings overlapped by months, so what!? It comes no where CLOSE to the 20 year difference, remember that!
We also have to realize that ALL of the dates WT gets are from...... ta ta da dahhhhh.... the same sources they want you to question! They USE cuneiform tablets, etc... and wow, as long as they can "work it" to go with their ideas... they use it! See?
*** w11 10/1 PAGE 28 When Was Ancient Jerusalem Destroyed?—Part One ***
A PIVOTAL DATE IN HISTORY
The date 539 B.C.E. when Cyrus II conquered Babylon is calculated using the testimony of:
▪ Ancient historical sources and cuneiform tablets: Diodorus of Sicily (c. 80-20 B.C.E.) wrote that Cyrus became king of Persia in “the opening year of the Fifty-fifth Olympiad.” (Historical Library, Book IX, 21) That year was 560 B.C.E. The Greek historian Herodotus (c. 485-425 B.C.E.) stated that Cyrus was killed “after he had reigned twenty-nine years,” which would put his death during his 30th year, in 530 B.C.E. (Histories, Book I, Clio, 214) Cuneiform tablets show that Cyrus ruled Babylon for nine years before his death. Thus, nine years prior to his death in 530 B.C.E. takes us back to 539 B.C.E. as the year Cyrus conquered Babylon.
Confirmation by a cuneiform tablet: A Babylonian astronomical clay tablet (BM 33066) confirms the date of Cyrus’ death in 530 B.C.E. Though this tablet contains some errors regarding the astronomical positions, it contains the descriptions of two lunar eclipses that the tablet says occurred in the seventh year of Cambyses II, the son and successor of Cyrus. These are identified with lunar eclipses visible at Babylon on July 16, 523 B.C.E., and on January 10, 522 B.C.E., thus pointing to the spring of 523 B.C.E. as the beginning of Cambyses’ seventh year. That would make his first regnal year 529 B.C.E. So Cyrus’ last year would have been 530 B.C.E., making 539 B.C.E. his first year of ruling Babylon.
[Credit Line] Tablet: © The Trustees of the British Museum
However, the box on page 31 says:
*** w11 10/1 PAGE 31 When Was Ancient Jerusalem Destroyed?—Part One ***The WT will praise and use a source as if it was written by God on one hand: "hey, it supports our ideas!"... and condemns them as soon as it doesn't! And that, my friend is why we all felt crazy!
A QUICK SUMMARY
▪ Secular historians usually say that Jerusalem was destroyed in 587 B.C.E.
▪ Bible chronology strongly indicates that the destruction occurred in 607 B.C.E.
▪ Secular historians mainly base their conclusions on the writings of classical historians and on the canon of Ptolemy.
▪ The writings of classical historians contain significant errors and are not always consistent with the records on clay tablets.
