No physical place, no one religion. It is made up of all people around the world who are the wheat/sheep. These ones will refuse the 'mark' and therefore make up the great crowd and some from them rule with Jesus.
Posts by Duran
-
62Revelation 13 and 17 Beasts
by Duran inrevelation 17:8-11,12-14. revelation 13:3,5,7,8,10;11:2,3. revelation 13:11-17;19:19,20,21. revelation 15:2;20:4. what beast does it state that gets thrown into the fiery lake with the false prophet?
what beast gets the 42-month authority given to it in which time the motb is given out?.
what beast is the 8th king?.
-
-
-
62
Revelation 13 and 17 Beasts
by Duran inrevelation 17:8-11,12-14. revelation 13:3,5,7,8,10;11:2,3. revelation 13:11-17;19:19,20,21. revelation 15:2;20:4. what beast does it state that gets thrown into the fiery lake with the false prophet?
what beast gets the 42-month authority given to it in which time the motb is given out?.
what beast is the 8th king?.
-
-
Duran
Enter the "man of lawlessness." This group will be infiltrating God's people similar to the group that infiltrated first century Christians after the death of the apostles.
That is not the case, and it is clear that you are not concern with what the Scriptures actually state. The MOL is said to be in God's temple exalting himself and the KOTN/DT is said to be in the holy place exalting himself. The MOL comes to his end by Jesus and so does the KOTN. You can't have two entities in the temple/holy place at the same time both said to be exalting themselves above the other.
Connected with the apostasy/LIE from the MOL is judgment. It says those that believe the LIE/apostasy will perish/not be saved. It says of those they believe the LIE was because they did not love the truth.
Connected with the beast (who also comes to his end when Jesus comes) is the mark which is a judgment to those that take it/support the beast will get God's wrath (perish/not be saved).
In regard to the KOTN as you pointed out verse 35 mentions doing a refining/cleansing/whitening. That is because that is the GT/42-months and during such time is when what will be the great crowd, that is when they wash their robes in the blood of the Lamb.
Hour of judgment. Within the context and general scheme of things, this final warning would be given, therefore must be referring to Armageddon.
1 Pet. 4:17 Not sure of this one. Let me think about it.
The "hour of judgement' or 'hour of test' is a symbolic 'hour' and is referring to the GT/42-months. The test is as to whether you take the mark/support Satan's beast/8th king/kingdom, or if you refuse the mark in support of God's kingdom allowing yourself to be killed/captive during the 42-months. That is when the holy city/place/temple is said to be trampled. That time is the judgment that starts with the house of God.
-
62
Revelation 13 and 17 Beasts
by Duran inrevelation 17:8-11,12-14. revelation 13:3,5,7,8,10;11:2,3. revelation 13:11-17;19:19,20,21. revelation 15:2;20:4. what beast does it state that gets thrown into the fiery lake with the false prophet?
what beast gets the 42-month authority given to it in which time the motb is given out?.
what beast is the 8th king?.
-
-
Duran
Here I disagree. It is described as an "apostacy" Nothing to do with the eighth king, which is a political entity.
[2 However, brothers, concerning the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you 3 Let no one lead you astray in any way, because it will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction. 4 He stands in opposition and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he sits down in the temple of God, publicly showing himself to be a god.]
[ 31 And arms will stand up, proceeding from him; and they will profane the sanctuary, the fortress, and remove the constant feature. “And they will put in place the disgusting thing that causes desolation.32 “And those who act wickedly against the covenant, he will lead into apostasy by means of smooth words. But the people who know their God will prevail and act effectively.36“The king will do as he pleases, and he will exalt himself and magnify himself above every god; and against the God of gods he will speak astonishing things. And he will prove successful until the denunciation comes to a finish; because what is determined must take place. 37 He will show no regard for the God of his fathers; nor will he show regard for the desire of women or for any other god, but he will magnify himself over everyone.]
The apostasy that has to come first before Jesus can come and gather his chosen is led by the KOTN/disgusting thing. He leads the apostasy AFTER he is put in the holy place which corresponds with the MOL sitting in God's temple. His being put in place corresponds with the kings giving the beast its 42-month authority. That time corresponds with the holy city being trampled on for 42-months which is the GT on God's people.
The apostasy/LIE with the MOL/8th king/KOTN/DT is done with the false prophet. It all has to do with taking the MOTB/supporting the 8th king/Satan's counterfeit kingdom.
____________________________
In regard to Revelation 14:9-12 above do you see that those that receive the mark will receive God's wrath?
What time frame in Revelation do you say the MOTB will be given out?
According to 1 Peter 4:17 judgment starts with the house of God. Where in Revelation do you say describes this judgment on God's house?
What do you say the 'hour of judgment' is referring to at Revelation 14:7 and when does it take place?
-
62
Revelation 13 and 17 Beasts
by Duran inrevelation 17:8-11,12-14. revelation 13:3,5,7,8,10;11:2,3. revelation 13:11-17;19:19,20,21. revelation 15:2;20:4. what beast does it state that gets thrown into the fiery lake with the false prophet?
what beast gets the 42-month authority given to it in which time the motb is given out?.
what beast is the 8th king?.
-
-
Duran
Surprisingly, you refer to the Society as an authority.
LOL! I didn't refer to them as an authority. I only pointed out that even they who are blind guides have now come around to knowing that nuclear weapons could be used in the future and still not destroy the earth. That was not what they said in the past.
Have you read about the breaking of the sixth seal and the first four trumpet blasts? I can assure you these do not describe WW III. So what do you think is being described there?
I never said the 6th seal describes WW3, seals 2-4 do. (Rev 6:3-8;Luke 21:10,11;Matt 24:7,8)
The 6th seal describes the sun, moon, star event (corresponds with) that as a result of those seeing it, they want to hide because it indicates to them that the day of wrath from Jehovah (one on the throne) and Jesus (the Lamb) has come. Those very ones that are wanting to hide from that wrath are the same ones that become bird food. I will cite for you some Scriptures to ponder over and then ask you some follow up questions.
[9 Another angel, a third, followed them, saying in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the wild beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he will also drink of the wine of the anger of God that is poured out undiluted into the cup of His wrath, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the sight of the holy angels and in the sight of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever, and day and night they have no rest, those who worship the wild beast and its image and whoever receives the mark of its name. 12 Here is where it calls for endurance on the part of the holy ones, those who keep the commandments of God and hold fast to the faith of Jesus.”]
[12 And I saw when he opened the sixth seal, and a great earthquake occurred; and the sun became black as sackcloth made of hair, and the entire moon became as blood, 13 and the stars of heaven fell to the earth as when a fig tree shaken by a high wind drops its unripe figs. 14 And the heaven departed as a scroll that is being rolled up, and every mountain and every island was removed from its place. 15 Then the kings of the earth, the high officials, the military commanders, the rich, the strong, every slave, and every free person hid in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains. 16 And they keep saying to the mountains and to the rocks: “Fall over us and hide us from the face of the One seated on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb, 17 because the great day of their wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”]
[17 I saw also an angel standing in the sun, and he cried out with a loud voice and said to all the birds that fly in midheaven: “Come here, be gathered together to the great evening meal of God, 18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings and the flesh of military commanders and the flesh of strong men and the flesh of horses and of those seated on them, and the flesh of all, of freemen as well as of slaves and of small ones and great.”19 And I saw the wild beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage war against the one seated on the horse and against his army. 20 And the wild beast was caught, and along with it the false prophet that performed in front of it the signs with which he misled those who received the mark of the wild beast and those who worship its image. While still alive, they both were hurled into the fiery lake that burns with sulfur. 21 But the rest were killed off with the long sword that proceeded out of the mouth of the one seated on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.]
[ 9 After this I saw, and look! a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, dressed in white robes; and there were palm branches in their hands. 10 And they keep shouting with a loud voice, saying: “Salvation we owe to our God, who is seated on the throne, and to the Lamb.”13 In response one of the elders said to me: “These who are dressed in the white robes, who are they and where did they come from?” 14 So right away I said to him: “My lord, you are the one who knows.” And he said to me: “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 That is why they are before the throne of God, and they are rendering him sacred service day and night in his temple; and the One seated on the throne will spread his tent over them. 16 They will hunger no more nor thirst anymore, neither will the sun beat down on them nor any scorching heat, 17 because the Lamb, who is in the midst of the throne, will shepherd them and will guide them to springs of waters of life. And God will wipe out every tear from their eyes.”]
-
62
Revelation 13 and 17 Beasts
by Duran inrevelation 17:8-11,12-14. revelation 13:3,5,7,8,10;11:2,3. revelation 13:11-17;19:19,20,21. revelation 15:2;20:4. what beast does it state that gets thrown into the fiery lake with the false prophet?
what beast gets the 42-month authority given to it in which time the motb is given out?.
what beast is the 8th king?.
-
-
Duran
Even the WTS now acknowledge that.
eerie but timely:
-
62
Revelation 13 and 17 Beasts
by Duran inrevelation 17:8-11,12-14. revelation 13:3,5,7,8,10;11:2,3. revelation 13:11-17;19:19,20,21. revelation 15:2;20:4. what beast does it state that gets thrown into the fiery lake with the false prophet?
what beast gets the 42-month authority given to it in which time the motb is given out?.
what beast is the 8th king?.
-
-
Duran
Because of the natural catastrophes ahead I believe the UN will be invited to take over leadership of the nations, to restore law and order. Not sure whether God will allow the nations to use their nuclear weapons. That would ruin the earth and everything on it (cf. Is. 45:18). But I might be wrong
It won't be because of natural catastrophes that the UN is given authority it will be because of WW3. And yes, there will be the use of nuclear weapons to some degree. Even the WTS now acknowledge that.
If you do not believe the horsemen have started with their gallop, that’s fine by me. But recent and unique history does fit the evidence. Even if WW III breaks out now, that would be a continuation for me of the galloping horses. And I work out the quarter of fatalities since WW I. Lot of people have died already from famine, pestilence, war, etc. Agreed it might not be 2 billion as yet, but isn’t that what the GT is all about?
What about all the people that have died already from famine, pestilence, war, etc. prior to WW1? Was it not from the horsemen? If not, why would you think that it has been from the horsemen since WW1? In your same breath there you ask in regard to the 2 billion, isn't that what the GT is about? If that is the case, then since it is said that that the horsemen have authority to kill 1/4 of people and if that occurs during the future GT then why claim the horsemen began back at WW1? You saying that is claiming seals 1-4 opened back then.
Also, 2 billon are not said to die as a result of the GT, it is a result of the 'pangs of distress'/WW3. The GT is the 42-months that come AFTER POD/WW3. It is GT only for God's true people who are refusing to take the mark under the 8th king rule. It is from that time that the great crowd come out from.
When Jesus comes, he will also sort out “the man of lawlessness,” which I believe to be a group and not a specific individual (2 Thes. 2:2, 7, 8).
The MOL is the same as the 8th king/KOTN/disgusting thing.
When will the GT start? I am wary to put time and date on it. But the Bible is quite clear:
11 and there will be great earthquakes, and in one place after another pestilences and food shortages; and there will be fearful sights and from heaven great signs. 25 Also, there will be signs in sun and moon and stars, and on the earth anguish of nations, not knowing the way out because of the roaring of the sea and [its] agitation,
26 while men become faint out of fear and expectation of the things coming upon the inhabited earth; for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. (Lk. 21:11, 25, 26)That is not how those Scriptures truly read. Are you not conflating here in this case?
[Luke 21:10Then he said to them: “Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. 11 There will be great earthquakes, and in one place after another food shortages and pestilences; and there will be fearful sights and from heaven great signs.][Mark 13:8 “For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom;there will be earthquakes in one place after another; there will also be food shortages. These are a beginning of pangs of distress.]
Above is the POD/WW3 (Seals 1-4) which leads to the 42-months/GT (during 5th seal open), then below comes AFTER the 42-months.
[Luke 21:25“Also, there will be signs in the sun and moon and stars, and on the earth anguish of nations not knowing the way out because of the roaring of the sea and its agitation. 26 People will become faint out of fear and expectation of the things coming upon the inhabited earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 27 And then they will see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.]
[Mark 13:24“But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, 25 and the stars will be falling out of heaven, and the powers that are in the heavens will be shaken. 26 And then they will see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.]
[Revelation 1:7Look! He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, and those who pierced him; and all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in grief because of him. Yes, Amen.]
(Seal 6)
-
543
Encouraging scriptures for the day
by Kosonen inhello my friends,.
here are some encouraging scriptures for the day:.
revelation 21:2 i also saw the holy city, new jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from god and prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.. hebrews 11:10 for he (abraham) was awaiting the city having real foundations, whose designer and builder is god.. revelation 21:24 and the nations will walk by means of its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it.. revelation 22:1 and he showed me a river of water of life, clear as crystal, flowing out from the throne of god and of the lamb 2 down the middle of its main street (of the holy city).
-
-
Duran
"May your own fountain be blessed, And may you rejoice with the wife of your youth, A loving doe, a graceful mountain goat. Let her breasts satisfy you at all times. May you be captivated by her love constantly." - Proverbs 5:18,19
-
9
January 2024 Study Watchtower is totally flooded.........
by BoogerMan in.....with the name "jehovah.
in all my years, i've never seen such overkill in any jw publication.
is the org worried about something?.
-
-
Duran
There is no doubt that one needs to acknowledge Jesus:
[32 Everyone, then, who acknowledges me before men, I will also acknowledge him before my Father who is in the heavens. 33 But whoever disowns me before men, I will also disown him before my Father who is in the heavens.]
The WTS surely does not focus/acknowledge Jesus to the extent they should, however, Scriptures like these have a greater meaning:
[31 But these have been written down so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and because of believing, you may have life by means of his name.]
[13 I write you these things so that you may know that you have life everlasting, you who put your faith in the name of the Son of God.]
[12 Furthermore, there is no salvation in anyone else, for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must get saved.”]
That name is JeHOshua and was given for a reason. That name means JeHOaH is Salvation. You can't put faith in his name without also acknowledging/putting faith in JeHOaH.
-
62
Revelation 13 and 17 Beasts
by Duran inrevelation 17:8-11,12-14. revelation 13:3,5,7,8,10;11:2,3. revelation 13:11-17;19:19,20,21. revelation 15:2;20:4. what beast does it state that gets thrown into the fiery lake with the false prophet?
what beast gets the 42-month authority given to it in which time the motb is given out?.
what beast is the 8th king?.
-
-
Duran
[21 But the rest were killed off with the long sword that proceeded out of the mouth of the one seated on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.]
-
62
Revelation 13 and 17 Beasts
by Duran inrevelation 17:8-11,12-14. revelation 13:3,5,7,8,10;11:2,3. revelation 13:11-17;19:19,20,21. revelation 15:2;20:4. what beast does it state that gets thrown into the fiery lake with the false prophet?
what beast gets the 42-month authority given to it in which time the motb is given out?.
what beast is the 8th king?.
-
-
Duran
[3 And he carried me away in the power of the spirit into a wilderness. And I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet-colored wild beast that was full of blasphemous names and that had seven heads and ten horns. 7 So the angel said to me: “Why is it that you were amazed? I will tell you the mystery of the woman and of the wild beast that is carrying her and that has the seven heads and the ten horns: 8 The wild beast that you saw was, but is not, and yet is about to ascend out of the abyss, and it is to go off into destruction. And when they see how the wild beast was, but is not, and yet will be present, those who dwell on the earth will wonder admiringly, but their names have not been written upon the scroll of life from the founding of the world. 9 “This calls for a mind that has wisdom: The seven heads mean seven mountains, where the woman sits on top. 10 And there are seven kings: Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet arrived; but when he does arrive, he must remain a short while. 11 And the wild beast that was but is not, it is also an eighth king, but it springs from the seven, and it goes off into destruction. 12 “The ten horns that you saw mean ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but they do receive authority as kings for one hour with the wild beast. 13 These have one thought, so they give their power and authority to the wild beast. 14 These will battle with the Lamb, but because he is Lord of lords and King of kings, the Lamb will conquer them. Also, those with him who are called and chosen and faithful will do so.”]
_____________________
[1 And it stood still upon the sand of the sea. And I saw a wild beast ascending out of the sea, with ten horns and seven heads, and upon its horns ten diadems, but upon its heads blasphemous names. 3 And I saw one of its heads as though slaughtered to death, but its death-stroke got healed, and all the earth followed the wild beast with admiration. 5 And a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies was given it, and authority to act forty-two months was given it. 7 And there was granted it to wage war with the holy ones and conquer them, and authority was given it over every tribe and people and tongue and nation. 8 And all those who dwell on the earth will worship it; the name of not one of them stands written in the scroll of life of the Lamb who was slaughtered, from the founding of the world. 10 If anyone is meant for captivity, he goes away into captivity. If anyone will kill with the sword, he must be killed with the sword. Here is where it means the endurance and faith of the holy ones.] [19 And I saw the wild beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage the war with the one seated on the horse and with his army. 20 And the wild beast was caught, and along with it the false prophet that performed in front of it the signs with which he misled those who received the mark of the wild beast and those who render worship to its image. While still alive, they both were hurled into the fiery lake that burns with sulphur.]