What's next?

by lastmanstanding in

what's next for the world?

a year ago i edited a map of the world to include some big arrows to tell the story of what is to come.

and i shared that map with various friends.

Duran

Think about it. Why would a Christian need to suffer to prove their faith when the many scriptures I presented prove Christians enjoy Salvation NOW?
Your theology requires ignoring all these scriptures above.
The reality is that the Church will be gone and along with it some of the perks they enjoyed. People can still be saved by faith during the GT, like you say; but that aint us. They will have to endure MUCH hardship and probably most will be murdered or die prematurely due to starvation or other unsavory conditions.

You just showed that you are aware that during the GT people are saved by their faith enduring the hardships upon them at that time. And YES, there is salvation NOW in having that faith because that is the promise/understanding attached to this faith. This is exactly why understanding and having this faith NOW will be critical to the ones that will willingly refuse the 8th king.

But with your wacky notion that every person having that faith NOW will get raptured up at that start of the 8th king, leaving 100% of people that lack that faith NOW and then somehow from among these same people left here, that didn't make the rapture, they are to be ones that have too instantaneous on day one of 8th king's rule have faith and belief in Jehovah and Jesus and refuse to support/worship him/take the MOTB, is absurd.

You are ignoring the Scriptures and their context. They clearly show that those that already have faith and belief in the promises connected to such faith, these are the ones that undergo such time faithfully enduing knowing that it means everlasting life in God's kingdom after the 8th king rule.

[10 If anyone is meant for captivity, he will go into captivity. If anyone will kill with the sword, he must be killed with the sword. This is where it calls for endurance and faith on the part of the holy ones.]

[12 Here is where it calls for endurance on the part of the holy ones, those who keep the commandments of God and hold fast to the faith of Jesus.”]

___________

[31 And arms will stand up, proceeding from him; and they will profane the sanctuary, the fortress, and remove the constant feature.“And they will put in place the disgusting thing that causes desolation.32 “And those who act wickedly against the covenant, he will lead into apostasy by means of smooth words. But the people who know their God will prevail and act effectively.]

Who are the people at that time that know their God that will prevail and act effectively, meaning will not be led into apostasy? Do those people know their God NOW today?

[10 at the time when he comes to be glorified in connection with his holy ones and to be regarded in that day with wonder among all those who exercised faith, because the witness we gave met with faith among you.]

At that time, in that day is referring to the revelation/coming of Jesus from heaven with his angels. Who are his holy ones and those that exercised faith?

[7 But you who suffer tribulation will be given relief along with us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels]

Who are 'you' and 'us' referring to at that time and what 'tribulation' are they receiving 'relief' from?

Lastly, will the presence/revelation/coming of Jesus and his chosen being gathered to him, will that occur before or after the MOL/apostasy comes? 2 Thessalonians 2:1,3

_______________

For God has not destined us for wrath - 1 Thess. 5: 9

This does not mean that they do not go through the GT. It means the wrath that they will not receive is that of which those get for taking the MOTB.

[9 Another angel, a third, followed them, saying in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the wild beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he will also drink of the wine of the anger of God that is poured out undiluted into the cup of His wrath,]

[12 And I saw when he opened the sixth seal, and a great earthquake occurred; and the sun became black as sackcloth made of hair, and the entire moon became as blood, 13 and the stars of heaven fell to the earth as when a fig tree shaken by a high wind drops its unripe figs. 14 And the heaven departed as a scroll that is being rolled up, and every mountain and every island was removed from its place. 15 Then the kings of the earth, the high officials, the military commanders, the rich, the strong, every slave, and every free person hid in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains. 16 And they keep saying to the mountains and to the rocks: “Fall over us and hide us from the face of the One seated on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb, 17 because the great day of their wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”]

[ 7 But you who suffer tribulation will be given relief along with us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels 8 in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance on those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus. 9 These very ones will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction from before the Lord and from the glory of his strength,]

77

What's next?

by lastmanstanding in

what's next for the world?

a year ago i edited a map of the world to include some big arrows to tell the story of what is to come.

and i shared that map with various friends.

Duran

From a Scriptural perspective, (as far as I can see!) all of earth's inhabitants, whether Christian or non-Christian, will be given a clear choice - worship/serve either the wild beast or God:

That's it, you couldn't have stated it any simpler.

Rev 13:5,7,10,11,12,14-17

Rev 14:6,7,9-12

Rev 15:2;20:4;7:9,10;19:20,21

Only cults are looking forward to the GT as a means of Salvation. For Christians, God's grace & THE RAPTURE is their "blessed hope".

rev 13:10;matt 24:9,13,29-31;2 Thess 1:7-10;luke 21:25-28

The GT gives the chance to show/prove one's faith. Being willing to undergo/endure not being able to buy/sell, being taken captive/killed for refusing to support the 8th king during his 42-month rule shows/proves that you have faith that that will only occur for a short time and then Jesus will come and rescue/relieve you from such and then you will live under God's kingdom rule. That is how one's faith saves them.

en·dure -suffer (something painful or difficult) patiently:

faith - complete trust or confidence in someone or something:

[ 10 If anyone is meant for captivity, he will go into captivity. If anyone will kill with the sword, he must be killed with the sword. This is where it calls for endurance and faith on the part of the holy ones.]

[9 Another angel, a third, followed them, saying in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the wild beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he will also drink of the wine of the anger of God that is poured out undiluted into the cup of His wrath, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the sight of the holy angels and in the sight of the Lamb. 12 Here is where it calls for endurance on the part of the holy ones, those who keep the commandments of God and hold fast to the faith of Jesus.”]

[ 7 But you who suffer tribulation will be given relief along with us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels 10 at the time when he comes to be glorified in connection with his holy ones and to be regarded in that day with wonder among all those who exercised faith, because the witness we gave met with faith among you.]

[8 By this undeserved kindness you have been saved through faith, and this is not of your own doing; rather, it is God’s gift.]

__________________

And do you have any response to the fact that Jesus' presence/coming, and his chosen being gathered to him will not occur until the MOL/apostasy comes first? 2 Thessalonians 2:1,3

77

What's next?

by lastmanstanding in

what's next for the world?

a year ago i edited a map of the world to include some big arrows to tell the story of what is to come.

and i shared that map with various friends.

Duran

9 months ago - Basically it is Iranian proxies declaring war on Israel, which they did decades ago by their establishment documents and again 3 weeks ago when they invaded unoccupied Israeli land.

Iran’s Leader Orders Attack on Israel for Haniyeh Killing, Officials Say

9 months ago - Will attacks from Hamas on Israel trigger WW3?

Iran's leader 'orders direct strike on Israel' in retaliation for 'assassination' of Hamas chief amid all-out war fears | The Sun

77

What's next?

by lastmanstanding in

what's next for the world?

a year ago i edited a map of the world to include some big arrows to tell the story of what is to come.

and i shared that map with various friends.

Duran

Your scenario fails TO EXPLAIN many of the scriptures I provided.

Where are all your scriptures you provided?

You mean like this one:

But I digress. Immediately after the marriage supper of the Lamb, Christ will visibly return to this earth to execute judgment on the Anti-Christ, put down evil, and set up His kingdom. He returns “with all His saints” (1 Th. 3:13), not just with the Church. Prior to the Tribulation the dead in Christ will be raised from the dead, those of us alive at that time will be changed, and together we shall all be caught up to meet the Lord in the air. 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 sets this glorious hope, commonly called the Rapture, before us.

[ 13 so that he may make your hearts firm, blameless in holiness before our God and Father at the presence of our Lord Jesus with all his holy ones.]

[ 15 For this is what we tell you by Jehovah’s word, that we the living who survive to the presence of the Lord will in no way precede those who have fallen asleep in death; 16 because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first. 17 Afterward we the living who are surviving will, together with them, be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and thus we will always be with the Lord.]

Do you realize that you cited Scriptures having to do with Jesus' presence/coming and Paul makes clear that that will not take place until first the MOL/apostasy takes place?

[2 However, brothers, concerning the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him,...3 Let no one lead you astray in any way, because it will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction. 4 He stands in opposition and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he sits down in the temple of God, publicly showing himself to be a god.]

The MOL is the same as the anti-Christ/8th king/KOTN. There will be no coming/presence of Jesus and his chosen being gathered to him until first the MOL comes first. After the 42 months/apostasy of the MOL/anti-Christ/8th king/KOTN is when Jesus comes with his angels and gathers his chosen.

[ 31 And arms will stand up, proceeding from him; and they will profane the sanctuary, the fortress, and remove the constant feature.“And they will put in place the disgusting thing that causes desolation.32 “And those who act wickedly against the covenant, he will lead into apostasy by means of smooth words. But the people who know their God will prevail and act effectively. 33 And those having insight among the people will impart understanding to the many. And they will be made to stumble by sword and by flame, by captivity and by plundering, for some days.]

[ 5 It was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and it was given authority to act for 42 months. 10 If anyone is meant for captivity, he will go into captivity. If anyone will kill with the sword, he must be killed with the sword. This is where it calls for endurance and faith on the part of the holy ones.]

[29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in grief, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he will send out his angels with a great trumpet sound, and they will gather his chosen ones together from the four winds, from one extremity of the heavens to their other extremity.]

77

What's next?

by lastmanstanding in

what's next for the world?

a year ago i edited a map of the world to include some big arrows to tell the story of what is to come.

and i shared that map with various friends.

Duran

Church- Age Christians have an approved status with God now.

Funny how you just ignore 2 Thess 1:7-10 in that it is AT the revelation from heaven with his angels is when Jesus comes to be glorified in connection with his holy ones. This period is definitely referring to post-trib time which rules out your notion of a grand ole party pre-trib.

You also neglect to explain how/why holy ones need to endure during the time the MOTB is being given which is during the 42 months of the 8th king.

Also, you fail to acknowledge that among those that come to life and rule with Jesus are those that do not take the mark, therefore they were here during the time it was being given. And note that at that point is the first resurrection and since they didn't receive the MOTB during the 42 months, then this means the first resurrection occurs after the 42/GT, not before at your so-called rapture point prior to the GT/42 months.

Being 'approved' is a result of enduring faithfully down to the end of one's life. In this case though we are talking about those living during the 'hour of judgment' by Jehovah that he uses the 8th kings as his means for that judgment period. All have to endure during that time to be 'approved' when Jesus comes after those 42 months.

[ 7 But you who suffer tribulation will be given relief along with us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels 8 in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance on those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus. 9 These very ones will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction from before the Lord and from the glory of his strength, 10 at the time when he comes to be glorified in connection with his holy ones and to be regarded in that day with wonder among all those who exercised faith, because the witness we gave met with faith among you.]

[ 7 so that you do not lack in any gift at all, while you are eagerly waiting for the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ.]

[ 7 in order that the tested quality of your faith, of much greater value than gold that perishes despite its being tested by fire, may be found a cause for praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ.]

[13 But the one who has endured to the end will be saved.]

[9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those slaughtered because of the word of God and because of the witness they had given. 10 They shouted with a loud voice, saying: “Until when, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, are you refraining from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” 11 And a white robe was given to each of them, and they were told to rest a little while longer, until the number was filled of their fellow slaves and their brothers who were about to be killed as they had been.]

[4 And I saw thrones, and those who sat on them were given authority to judge. Yes, I saw the souls of those executed for the witness they gave about Jesus and for speaking about God, and those who had not worshipped the wild beast or its image and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand. And they came to life and ruled as kings with the Christ for 1,000 years. 6 Happy and holy is anyone having part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no authority, but they will be priests of God and of the Christ, and they will rule as kings with him for the 1,000 years.]

[ 10 If anyone is meant for captivity, he will go into captivity. If anyone will kill with the sword, he must be killed with the sword. This is where it calls for endurance and faith on the part of the holy ones.]

[9 Another angel, a third, followed them, saying in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the wild beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he will also drink of the wine of the anger of God that is poured out undiluted into the cup of His wrath, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the sight of the holy angels and in the sight of the Lamb. 12 Here is where it calls for endurance on the part of the holy ones, those who keep the commandments of God and hold fast to the faith of Jesus.]

77

What's next?

by lastmanstanding in

what's next for the world?

a year ago i edited a map of the world to include some big arrows to tell the story of what is to come.

and i shared that map with various friends.

Duran

The first three chapters of Revelation are about the Church. After chapter 3, the Church (all born again believers since Pentecost) are not seen again for the rest of the book (Tribulation) until Christ returns to defeat the Anti-Christ....Just because Christians are evacuated out during the GT doesn't mean that God has stopped being in the business of saving people - far from it.

In your wacky notion of a rapture, you have so-called Christians being raptured up and approved of before ever being tested/refined. You think ALL as is so-called Christians today are good-to-go at any time. Then when they ALL are raptured that somehow there will still be non-Christian people here left to be ruled over by the anti-Christ in order for them to be tested and put their faith in Jesus?

That is not how it works.

The whole point of the anti-Christ/8th king is to put to the test/refine ALL those claiming to be Christians now. This is what is known as the 'hour of judgment' from God. During that time one either accepts the MOTB and supports the 8th king thereby rejecting God or one worships God thereby refusing the to take the MOTB and to support the 8th king.

True believers in God and his Christ will refuse the 8th king and suffer tribulation under his 42-month rule, they are not raptured up prior to such time. It is the result of going through that tribulation and enduring faithfully that enables them to live in/be a part of God's kingdom. (And for some among them to rule with Jesus.)

[24 “But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, 25 and the stars will be falling out of heaven, and the powers that are in the heavens will be shaken. 26 And then they will see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then he will send out the angels and will gather his chosen ones together from the four winds, from earth’s extremity to heaven’s extremity.]

[ 7 But you who suffer tribulation will be given relief along with us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels 8 in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance on those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus. 9 These very ones will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction from before the Lord and from the glory of his strength, 10 at the time when he comes to be glorified in connection with his holy ones and to be regarded in that day with wonder among all those who exercised faith, because the witness we gave met with faith among you.]

Rev 13:5,7,10;14:6,7,9-12;15:2;20:4,6;7:9,10,13-17

11

Jehovah's Witnesses "Declare the Good News" around the World this week. JW Child abuse PAGE ONE on Google news!

by Balaamsass2 in

7/28/2024 sunday, despite dozens of watchtower official press releases attempting to swamp google seo, new zealand child abuse outrages climb to page one for "jehovah" news results.. ".

former jehovah's witnesses welcome inquiry's findings of 'credible evidence' of abuse.

8:07 am on 27 july 2024".

Duran

Most think that in getting (or after) divorced that in order to get remarried there has to be proof that one is scripturally free to do so. Proof like knowing the ex-remarried or two witnesses seeing current/ex spouse with another, spending night/going into home alone with, etc.

But in the following, if one themself knows that their spouse was with another sexually, rather they caught/saw it or if it was admitted to them by spouse, they can write a letter stating that and it can serve as proof freeing one to scripturally remarry. No need for two witness proof in seeing the current/ex-spouse.

If that is the case, how much more so should one that was abused and knows first-hand that they were and who did it to them, that they can write a letter and it serve as proof as to what they state about abuse happening to them. No need to have a second witness to it.

[w77 10/1 Since she is part of the clean Christian congregation, she should realize the importance of handling the matter properly so that, after divorcing him, if she later remarried there would be no question about her keeping ‘the marriage bed without defilement.’ (Heb. 13:4) To that end she could give the elders representing the congregation a letter outlining her situation, stating that her unbelieving husband confessed to her that he had committed immorality. And she could state that in accord with Matthew 19:9 she wishes to put him away, obtaining a legal divorce and thus ending the marriage Scripturally and legally.
The elders would consider whether there is any known reason to conclude other than that the unbelieving mate had been immoral. If not, they could accept her signed statement.]

77

What's next?

by lastmanstanding in

what's next for the world?

a year ago i edited a map of the world to include some big arrows to tell the story of what is to come.

and i shared that map with various friends.

Duran

These verses pertain to the coming Rapture of Saints (believers):...While I'm gone during this time, there will be the most fantastic party in heaven the universe has ever seen. The Marriage Supper of the Lamb. In stark contrast, on earth, people will experience what it is like without the Holy Spirit (God on earth) restraining evil. It will be utterly horrifying.

If co-called Christians are gone during such time, why does it call for endurance and faith for them during that time? And how does the beast/8th king wage war and conquer them, if they are not here?

[6 And I saw another angel flying in midheaven, and he had everlasting good news to declare to those who dwell on the earth, to every nation and tribe and tongue and people. 7 He was saying in a loud voice: “Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of judgment by him has arrived, so worship the One who made the heaven and the earth and the sea and the springs of water.”9 Another angel, a third, followed them, saying in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the wild beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he will also drink of the wine of the anger of God that is poured out undiluted into the cup of His wrath, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the sight of the holy angels and in the sight of the Lamb. 12 Here is where it calls for endurance on the part of the holy ones, those who keep the commandments of God and hold fast to the faith of Jesus.”]

[ 5 It was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and it was given authority to act for 42 months. 7 It was permitted to wage war with the holy ones and conquer them, and it was given authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation. 10 If anyone is meant for captivity, he will go into captivity. If anyone will kill with the sword, he must be killed with the sword. This is where it calls for endurance and faith on the part of the holy ones.]

37

Robert King aka e-watchman

by RolRod in

jw
friends

there have been a few post about robert king, the first was 16 years ago, the last was 9 years ago.

just to the let the old timers here know, he's still at it.

and for you newbies, robert king who wrote "jehovah himself has become king.

Duran

So, what do you say @ a watcher, are you gonna reply to RK here (post #4) and ask why he banned Frank and then deleted/edited his post? Are you going to inform him and everyone else on his site that the info he deleted is over here, asking him to address it?

I am being facetious; I know that you are not going to, but I say this because one would think that if you think that his site is a place where so-called lost sheep should be directed, then you should at least care and make sure that the place/person you are directing them to is not also a lying deceitful person like the GB are.

I may have been the one who referred you. I've been hanging out there for years looking for lost sheep and directing them here.

It's possible. I lurk on ex-jw websites and mention e-watchman occasionally.

The moderator(s) of that website doesn't like you. I was ridiculed for mentioning you there. They recently banned me for saying something negative about the website. No great loss.

37

Robert King aka e-watchman

by RolRod in

jw
friends

there have been a few post about robert king, the first was 16 years ago, the last was 9 years ago.

just to the let the old timers here know, he's still at it.

and for you newbies, robert king who wrote "jehovah himself has become king.

Duran

In his second letter to the Thessalonians the prophet Paul wrote concerning the parousia, saying of it: “At the time when he comes to be glorified in connection with his holy ones and to be regarded in that day with wonder among all those who exercised faith.” Elsewhere, namely in his letter to the Romans, the apostle referred to the revealing of the sons of God. Needless to say, the revealing of the sons of God will come about as a result of the revelation of Jesus to them.
John, who was on the mountain when Christ was transfigured before them, wrote in his first epistle: “Beloved ones, we are now children of God, but it has not yet been made manifest what we will be. We do know that when he is made manifest we will be like him, because we will see him just as he is.” – 1 John 3 verse 2
Considering the context of Paul’s letter to the Thessalonians concerning the parousia, Paul issued a warning regarding the operation of Satan as the source of authoritative pronouncements and apostolic-like letters declaring that the presence has begun and the Lord’s day is here. Then, the apostle prophesied and gave us a vital bit of information regarding a crucial development that must take place first before Christ appears. Again, what is that? Read it: “Let no one lead you astray in any way, because it will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction.”
The pronoun “it” is in reference to the parousia. And the apostasy must take place immediately before the presence and manifestation of Christ. Jesus referred to Judas as the son of destruction.

I then took this part:

In his second letter to the Thessalonians the prophet Paul wrote concerning the parousia, saying of it: “At the time when he comes to be glorified in connection with his holy ones and to be regarded in that day with wonder among all those who exercised faith.”

I then said that you are talking about Jesus’ presence/parousia and citing a Scripture that shows that that is when he comes to be glorified in connection with his holy ones. I then went on to say look what happens when you look at the full context and not just the part that you isolated out of it:

[7 But you who suffer tribulation will be given relief along with us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels 8 in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance on those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus. 9 These very ones will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction from before the Lord and from the glory of his strength, 10 at the time when he comes to be glorified in connection with his holy ones and to be regarded in that day with wonder among all those who exercised faith, because the witness we gave met with faith among you.]

This coming of Jesus’, RK places at his #2, at the start of the 42 months. This is critical for him to place it there because he is hell bent to support his notion that Jesus has a so-called presence with his chosen ones prior to his coming at Armageddon.

This is why he uses verse 10 alone, to try to make the time ‘Jesus comes to be glorified in connection with his holy ones’ a totally separate earlier even before his coming at Armageddon.

Why he also says:

Elsewhere, namely in his letter to the Romans, the apostle referred to the revealing of the sons of God. Needless to say, the revealing of the sons of God will come about as a result of the revelation of Jesus to them.

But the context of ‘the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels’, ‘when he comes to be glorified in connection with his holy ones’ shows that relief is being given to those that suffered tribulation and also everlasting destruction is being given at that time to those that did not obey the good news. This shows that the timing of this coming has to be after the 42-month tribulation of the 8th king when Jesus comes at Armageddon.

I then took this part:

Then, the apostle prophesied and gave us a vital bit of information regarding a crucial development that must take place first before Christ appears. Again, what is that? Read it: “Let no one lead you astray in any way, because it will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction.”
The pronoun “it” is in reference to the parousia. And the apostasy must take place immediately before the presence and manifestation of Christ. Jesus referred to Judas as the son of destruction.

Then I cited full context of Scripture he used:

[2 However, brothers, concerning the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you 2 not to be quickly shaken from your reason nor to be alarmed either by an inspired statement or by a spoken message or by a letter appearing to be from us, to the effect that the day of Jehovah is here. 3 Let no one lead you astray in any way, because it will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction.]

I agreed that YES according to what is written, is states that before any presence/revelation/manifestation/coming of Jesus to gather his chosen/be glorified in connection with his holy ones could happen, that the said MOL and apostasy from him must come first. I reiterated that the said presence/coming/revelation of Jesus from heaven with his angels to be glorified with/gather his holy ones, shows to take place after the 42-months of the 8th king at Jesus’ coming at Armageddon, which cannot be disputed based on the context of being giving relief from the tribulation and bring everlasting destruction on the disobedient ones at that said coming of his.

I then said that being that that coming is after the 42 months then what about the fact that I understand and agree that the said MOL/apostasy has to come first before Jesus will come to gather his chosen/be glorified in connection with them.

I cited Scriptures that have to do with the KOTN. Now keep in mind that RK agrees here on this point that the KOTN and 8th king are the same entity during this time of the 42-months. I reminded that with the 8th king during this time is the time of the MOTB, which he knows and agrees. So now I go on to show that in regard to the KOTN is says:

[ 31 And arms will stand up, proceeding from him; and they will profane the sanctuary, the fortress, and remove the constant feature.“And they will put in place the disgusting thing that causes desolation.32 “And those who act wickedly against the covenant, he will lead into apostasy by means of smooth words. But the people who know their God will prevail and act effectively. 33 And those having insight among the people will impart understanding to the many. And they will be made to stumble by sword and by flame, by captivity and by plundering, for some days.]

There it states that there is an apostasy the KOTN leads. So since we agree that the 8th king and KOTN are the same entity and this is the time of the 42 months with the MOTB, then the apostasy that is said to be lead by the KOTN must have to do with the MOTB.

So by all shown so far it means that the apostasy the must come first before Jesus will come, takes place during the 42 months and then Jesus comes. Therefore the MOL has nothing to do with the WTS but instead is also the same entity as the 8th king/KOTN.

All I asked of him to answer is if he thinks that the WTS is wrong with what they teach and he calls them out on it, then if he thinks that what he teachs is true then can he answer the following:

[7 But you who suffer tribulation will be given relief along with us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels 8 in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance on those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus. 9 These very ones will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction from before the Lord and from the glory of his strength, 10 at the time when he comes to be glorified in connection with his holy ones and to be regarded in that day with wonder among all those who exercised faith, because the witness we gave met with faith among you.]

What tribulation are they receiving relief from?

Based on the context, does the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels take place at the start of the 42months of the 8th king or after at Armageddon?

If the apostasy is clearly said to be lead by the KOTN and that is during the 42 months having to do with the MOTB, and if you don’t think the MOL is the same as the KOTN/8th king, but instead is your beloved WTS, then what is the said apostasy that is to come from them (WTS) that you think comes first, before Jesus comes and the 42 months start when another apostasy is said to come led by the KOTN?

I went into greater detail there how the MOTB is the apostasy having to do with either worshipping Jehovah and refusing the 8th king during the 42 months or supporting the 8th king and there by rejecting Jehovah which is the apostasy. But here I am not going to go into that detail because I know many here don’t even believe in the Bible. I just wanted to show what RK wouldn’t answer and why he banned me and deleted what I wrote/asked.

Because he knows that if he ever admits that the context shows that the ‘revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels’ takes place after the 42 months, then he can’t keep claiming his erroneous notion that there is a said coming/presence/revelation of Jesus prior to his coming at Armageddon, something that the WTS teach to this day and RK has his own version of, so just like WTS/GB, he lies to retain that notion. He also won’t admit that the apostasy that has to come first before Jesus will come is the said one that comes from the KOTN/8th king during the 42 months. The reason he won’t admit to that and insist that there two different apostasy’s that follow each other back to back, is because he is hell bent on claiming the MOL is within the WTS so that the apostasy connected with the MOL must take place somehow with the WTS first, then is followed by a second apostasy with the MOTB.

Additional of Frank’s view that RK deleted:

8th king = KOTN = MOL

putting into holy placeexalts = sit in the temple exalts

captivity = captivity

judgment apostasy = judgment apostasy

comes to his end when Jesus comes = comes to his end when Jesus comes

Duran

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