Posts by Duran

226

The point of existence and how it refutes the Trinity

by slimboyfat in

rowan williams, the former archbishop of canterbury gave an interesting answer to the somewhat stark question, what’s the point of us existing?

as a christian, my starting point is that we exist because the most fundamental form of activity, energy, call it what you like, that is there, is love.

that is, it’s a willingness that the other should be.

Duran

Thank you for raising the question again with greater clarity—although it’s unfortunate that you continue to couch your remarks in unnecessary mockery rather than genuine theological dialogue. Still, I’ll engage your point sincerely and respectfully, because the question of divine identity matters deeply.

Any mockery coming from me towards you is because you are a total moron, because you can't reply back without speaking about your Trinity point of view.

You say this:

Yes, Jesus is speaking in the first person in Revelation 3:21. He says, “I also conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne.” That’s straightforward on the surface. But if you suppose this proves ontological separation between Jesus and the Father—if you assume this distinction in person means Jesus is not divine—then you’re importing an a priori assumption that only the Father is Jehovah.

You choose to reply assuming that I am wanting to speak about 'separation between Jesus and the Father', when what I said was:

Trinity talk aside so I could go to the next question pertaining to Jehoshua (I), stating to those that conquer being granted to sit down on his throne with him, just as, he (Jehoshua) conquered and sat down on his father's (Jehovah's) throne.

My question has to do with 'those that conquer being granted to sit down on the throne', "just as" Jehoshua said to do.

[ 21 To the one who conquers I will grant to sit down with me on my throne, just as I conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne.]

I never asked what I was going to because of the fact that you have to make your every reply about your Trinity point of view regardless of me not talking about it.

My focus was to first establish and agree that there are TWO names given, יהוה and יהושע.

It does not matter if you think those TWO names are the same person or if I think they are two different beings. Those TWO names are given and can be applied based on the context of the Scripture.

[29 The next day he saw Jehoshua coming toward him, and he said: “See, (Jehoshua) the Lamb of (Jehovah) God who takes away the sin of the world!]

[3 And there will no longer be any curse. But the throne of (Jehovah) God and of (Jehoshua) the Lamb will be in the city, and his slaves will offer him sacred service]

[21 To the one who conquers I (Jehoshua) will grant to sit down with me on my throne, just as I conquered and sat down with my Father (Jehovah) on his throne.]

[9 For if you publicly declare with your mouth that Jehoshua is Lord, and exercise faith in your heart that (Jehovah) God raised him (Jehoshua) up from the dead, you will be saved.]

[32 “Everyone, then, who acknowledges me (Jehoshua) before men, I will also acknowledge him before my Father (Jehovah) who is in the heavens.]

[ 34 And I have seen it, and I have given witness that this one (Jehoshua) is the Son of (Jehovah) God.]

226

The point of existence and how it refutes the Trinity

by slimboyfat in

rowan williams, the former archbishop of canterbury gave an interesting answer to the somewhat stark question, what’s the point of us existing?

as a christian, my starting point is that we exist because the most fundamental form of activity, energy, call it what you like, that is there, is love.

that is, it’s a willingness that the other should be.

Duran

You see how you just can't refrain from being so moronic...

I said:

Putting any debate about the Trinity aside, do you agree that I/me/my is referring to Jehoshua and Father/his is referring to Jehovah?

Yet you just can't reply without going off on your rants. It's you that proves ' your inability to engage civilly with theological dialogue'.

You admit in regard to my question:

You ask whether the pronoun “I” refers to Yehoshua (Jesus) and “his” refers to Jehovah. Grammatically, yes

You could have just kept it that simply and kept the Trinity talk aside so I could go to the next question pertaining to Jehoshua (I), stating to those that conquer being granted to sit down on his throne with him, just as, he (Jehoshua) conquered and sat down on his father's (Jehovah's) throne. (Remember, Trinity talk aside, you agreed grammatically that is how that verse reads.)

226

The point of existence and how it refutes the Trinity

by slimboyfat in

rowan williams, the former archbishop of canterbury gave an interesting answer to the somewhat stark question, what’s the point of us existing?

as a christian, my starting point is that we exist because the most fundamental form of activity, energy, call it what you like, that is there, is love.

that is, it’s a willingness that the other should be.

Duran

Now, while you were simply “asking questions,” your implication was clear: that these are two distinct individuals with distinct identities and names—Yahweh and Jesus (the Son), and thus they must be separate gods or beings.

I asked you:

What is this (3091) יהושע Hebrew name in English for this (2424) Ιησούς Greek name

You said:

The name יהושע (Yehoshua) is the original Hebrew form of the name rendered in Greek as Ἰησοῦς (Iēsous), and in English as Jesus.

Okay, thank you for that. That is a clear answer to my question.

Is it okay to say at this point that we agree that (3091) יהושע Hebrew name in English is Yehoshua/Jehoshua?

________________

Now for this:

What is this (3068) יהוה Hebrew name in English

You said:

The Tetragrammaton יהוה is traditionally rendered in English as Yahweh or, in its older English form, Jehovah.

Is it okay to say at this point that we agree that (3068) יהוה Hebrew name in English is Yehovah/Jehovah?

___________

Putting any debate about the Trinity aside, do you agree that I/me/my is referring to Jehoshua and Father/his is referring to Jehovah?

[ 21 To the one who conquers I will grant to sit down with me on my throne, just as I conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne.]

226

The point of existence and how it refutes the Trinity

by slimboyfat in

rowan williams, the former archbishop of canterbury gave an interesting answer to the somewhat stark question, what’s the point of us existing?

as a christian, my starting point is that we exist because the most fundamental form of activity, energy, call it what you like, that is there, is love.

that is, it’s a willingness that the other should be.

Duran

Your response attempts to establish a rigid distinction
The second part of the argument
In conclusion, your argument reduces “name” to a linguistic tag,

I know that you are a compete moron, but do you have to demonstrate it in your every reply?

I was not making any argument there, I was merely asking you to tell me what you think the English names are for those two Hebrew names and in the context of the Scripture they are cited in, who do they represent.

Care to try again? Do you think you are capable of answering what's asked?

What is this (3068) יהוה Hebrew name in English and who does it represent here:

[15 Then God said once more to Moses:“This is what you are to say to the Israelites, (3068) the God of your forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.’ This is my name forever, and this is how I am to be remembered from generation to generation.]

______

What is this (3091) יהושע Hebrew name in English for this (2424) Ιησούς Greek name and who does it represent here:

[31 And look! you will become pregnant and give birth to a son, and you are to name him (2424).]

226

The point of existence and how it refutes the Trinity

by slimboyfat in

rowan williams, the former archbishop of canterbury gave an interesting answer to the somewhat stark question, what’s the point of us existing?

as a christian, my starting point is that we exist because the most fundamental form of activity, energy, call it what you like, that is there, is love.

that is, it’s a willingness that the other should be.

Duran

Earlier in this thread I invited a poster to google non-biblical sources for the life of Jesus. Doing that will reveal over 100 sources from Romans, Jews, Greeks, and other Secular documents.

SB,

So do I have this correct, your answer to this question I asked you:

Other than you reading of this in the Greek Scriptures, what proof do you have that this ever happened, or do you just believe that it happened?

Your answer is that your proof/facts is based on what you found when googling about Jesus. Because of what you found on the internet, you don't just believe that Jesus dead and resurrected himself, but you see proof of it. Is that correct? (Keep in mind that I am not asking if there is proof if a person named Jesus, etc. existed back then. I am asking if other then it being said in the Greek Scriptures, what proof/facts do you have that Jesus resurrected himself.)

And you have yet to answer this:

Do you believe that an angel visited Muhammad and gave him the info to write the Quran?

Do you believe that an angel visited Joesph Smith and gave him the info for the book of Mormon?

Do you believe an angel appeared to a man named John (Revelation 22:8) and gave him info to write the book of Revelation?

226

The point of existence and how it refutes the Trinity

by slimboyfat in

rowan williams, the former archbishop of canterbury gave an interesting answer to the somewhat stark question, what’s the point of us existing?

as a christian, my starting point is that we exist because the most fundamental form of activity, energy, call it what you like, that is there, is love.

that is, it’s a willingness that the other should be.

Duran

You then quoted Revelation 14:1 regarding the 144,000 who have the name of the Lamb and of His Father written on their foreheads. You asked: what is the Lamb’s name, and what is the Father’s name? Symbolically, the “name” represents consecration, belonging, and identity—not merely phonetic labeling.

aqwsed,

What is this (3068) יהוה Hebrew name in English and who does is represent here:

[15 Then God said once more to Moses:“This is what you are to say to the Israelites, (3068) the God of your forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.’ This is my name forever, and this is how I am to be remembered from generation to generation.]

______

What is this (3091) יהושע Hebrew name in English for this (2424) Ιησούς Greek name and who does is represent here:

[31 And look! you will become pregnant and give birth to a son, and you are to name him (2424).]

226

The point of existence and how it refutes the Trinity

by slimboyfat in

rowan williams, the former archbishop of canterbury gave an interesting answer to the somewhat stark question, what’s the point of us existing?

as a christian, my starting point is that we exist because the most fundamental form of activity, energy, call it what you like, that is there, is love.

that is, it’s a willingness that the other should be.

Duran

The Holy Spirit is truly God—coequal, consubstantial, and coeternal with the Father and the Son.

aqwsed,

[22 For the Father judges no one at all, but he has entrusted all the judging to the Son, 23 so that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father.]

Why no honor to the HS mentioned there?

How does one honor the father? (Give an example.)

How does one honor the son? (Give an example.)

[14 Then I saw, and look! the Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who have his name and the name of his Father written on their foreheads.]

What is the Lamb's name?

What is his father's name?

___________________

For most believers, they are thrilled to come to a point where they accept the historical fact that Jesus raised himself from the dead ,,,
It makes no difference to me about the exact nature of God after he proved that he could raise himself from the dead. The point is that he did it.

SB,

Other than you reading of this in the Greek Scriptures, what proof do you have that this ever happened, or do you just believe that it happened?

Also, you never answered:

Do you believe that an angel visited Muhammad and gave him the info to write the Quran?

Do you believe that an angel visited Joesph Smith and gave him the info for the book of Mormon?

To add to that, do you believe an angel appeared to a man named John (Revelation 22:8) and gave him the info for the book of Revelation?

226

The point of existence and how it refutes the Trinity

by slimboyfat in

rowan williams, the former archbishop of canterbury gave an interesting answer to the somewhat stark question, what’s the point of us existing?

as a christian, my starting point is that we exist because the most fundamental form of activity, energy, call it what you like, that is there, is love.

that is, it’s a willingness that the other should be.

Duran

“The Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son, that all may honor the Son, just as they honor the Father.” (John 5:22–23)

How does one honor the father? (Give an example.)

How does one honor the son? (Give an example.)

And why no honor to the HS there?

226

The point of existence and how it refutes the Trinity

by slimboyfat in

rowan williams, the former archbishop of canterbury gave an interesting answer to the somewhat stark question, what’s the point of us existing?

as a christian, my starting point is that we exist because the most fundamental form of activity, energy, call it what you like, that is there, is love.

that is, it’s a willingness that the other should be.

Duran

Trinitarians,

What are you to acknowledge?

3670. homologeo - To confess, to acknowledge, to agree

[15 Whoever acknowledges (3670.) that Jesus is God’s Son, God remains in union with such one and he in union with God.]

________

What should you believe in your heart?

4100. pisteuo - To believe, to have faith, to trust

[9 For if you publicly declare with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and exercise faith (4100.) in your heart that God raised him up from the dead, you will be saved.]

23

3 Changes The Watchtower Made on Babylon The Great in the Last 6 Months

by raymond frantz in

https://youtu.be/vpws6ncqpla?si=dqnf7-hupfr4pdta.

for decades, jehovah’s witnesses have been banging on about babylon the great—the so-called world empire of false religion—being on the brink of collapse.

any day now, they assured us, churches would empty out, priests would be left twiddling their thumbs, and humanity would collectively bin organised religion.

Duran

I was under the impression that the WTS taught that the war in heaven happened in 1914, with the banishment of Satan being directly responsible for World War I. Do they still teach that?

I think they say it was shortly.after 1914 or in 1918 not sure.

[ws14 7/15 - In October 1914, Jehovah made Jesus King over mankind. At that time, the conclusion, or “the last days,” of Satan’s world began.—2 Timothy 3:1.]

[bh- 4The preceding chapter in this book explained that Jesus Christ became King in heaven in the year 1914. (Read Daniel 7:13, 14.) Soon after he received Kingdom power, Jesus took action. “War broke out in heaven,” says the Bible. “Michael [another name for Jesus] and his angels battled with the dragon [Satan the Devil], and the dragon and its angels battled.”a Satan and his wicked angels, the demons, lost that war and were cast out of heaven to the earth. God’s faithful spirit sons rejoiced that Satan and his demons were gone. Humans, however, would experience no such joy. Instead, the Bible foretold: “Woe for the earth . . . because the Devil has come down to you, having great anger, knowing that he has a short period of time.”—Revelation 12:7, 9, 12.]

[ w22 July - Why did world conditions take a turn for the worse when Jesus became King? Revelation 6:2 gives an important detail—Jesus’ first mission as newly crowned King was to wage war. Against whom? Against the Devil and his demons. According to Revelation chapter 12, Satan lost the battle, and he and the demons were hurled down to the earth. Enraged, Satan began to vent his anger on humankind, resulting in “woe for the earth.”—Rev. 12:7-12.]

___________

chicken or egg?

Satan ousted in Oct 1914 (Time when woe for the earth would begin as a result.)

WW1 started June/July 1914 (Said woe for the earth.)