TD

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Posts by TD

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  18

  1914 Was Originally Just 40 Years Past the End Date of 1874, That's All it Was!

  by OnTheWayOut in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  you don't need to understand complicated ways to go from 607bce to 1914ce.

  you don't have to go back to the late 1700's to understand the founding of jehovah's witnesses on the back of william miller's teachings.

  you just need to know that watchtower math and past doctrines along with changes in teachings are all based on lies.

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  TD

  OTWO,

  The idea that Russell's teachings were predictive in a way relavant to JW's today may seem trivial to us, but it's very important to them
  

  --Which is why the fact that Russell actually despised Wendell's chronology (His words, not mine) is not splitting hairs.
  
  
• 
  18

  1914 Was Originally Just 40 Years Past the End Date of 1874, That's All it Was!

  by OnTheWayOut in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  you don't need to understand complicated ways to go from 607bce to 1914ce.

  you don't have to go back to the late 1700's to understand the founding of jehovah's witnesses on the back of william miller's teachings.

  you just need to know that watchtower math and past doctrines along with changes in teachings are all based on lies.

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• 

  TD

  When Jesus didn't appear as expected, Russell still believed it (or at least wanted to keep selling pamplets that explained it). He taught that Jesus must have returned invisibly, meaning that Jesus was ruling from Heaven starting in 1874.

  Although Russell was intrigued by Dispensationalism, he didn't jump onto the Adventist bandwagon until well after the fact. His first known written pamphlet on the manner of Christ's return was actually not published until the year 1877
  

  Russell, by his own testimony, (Published in ZWT in July of 1906) did not accept Adventist chronology and date setting until he met Nelson Barbour in January of 1876, which again, was after the event had allegedly occured.

  It was Barbour, not Wendell who convinced Russell of the dates 1874, 1878, the forty year harvest and 1914 as well as the chronology behind them.
  

  It was Barbour, not Russell who came up with the idea of an invisible Parousia as an explanation of why nothing happened in 1874. (The idea was first suggested to Barbour by B. W. Keith.)
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  18

  1914 Was Originally Just 40 Years Past the End Date of 1874, That's All it Was!

  by OnTheWayOut in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  you don't need to understand complicated ways to go from 607bce to 1914ce.

  you don't have to go back to the late 1700's to understand the founding of jehovah's witnesses on the back of william miller's teachings.

  you just need to know that watchtower math and past doctrines along with changes in teachings are all based on lies.

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  TD

  OTWO

  You've got almost every single detail wrong, but the gist of your messege is spot on. The dates have been and still are continually reinvented after the fact.
  
• 
  79

  Who really is the faithful and discreet* slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time?

  by Alex Williams in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this statement was answered in a form of a question to a question posed by one of his followers;.

  jesus realized that composite slave had to qualify for such an appointment when he came into power of his kingdom promised by jehovah god.

  [and they came to life and ruled as kings with the christ+ for 1,000 years].

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  TD

  Only the Scriptures are infallible but understanding the message from God then was like a dim light coming from the darkness,the darkness the bible students came from the false Churches into Jehovah's wonderful bright light of truth.....

  I wouldn't exactly call Rutherford's raging Anti-Semitism "bright light," but even were that not the case, your answer is still wide of the point.

  It's nonsensical to claim Russell as a spiritual forebearer if you disagree with virtually everything he taught.
  
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  79

  Who really is the faithful and discreet* slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time?

  by Alex Williams in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this statement was answered in a form of a question to a question posed by one of his followers;.

  jesus realized that composite slave had to qualify for such an appointment when he came into power of his kingdom promised by jehovah god.

  [and they came to life and ruled as kings with the christ+ for 1,000 years].

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  TD

  I'm struggling to think of anything that Russell taught that Jehovah's Witnesses still accept today.
  
• 
  62

  Evolution - A Conversation with Alex Williams

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  alex - thank you for your offer to have a conversation about evolution.. i accept the scientific evidence that all life - including humans - evolved from a common ancestor through unguided evolution over millions of years.

  this isn't even a controversial position in the scientific community.. the evidence rests on the data from many interconnected fields including paleontology, comparative anatomy, geology and especially genetics.

  it is no exaggeration to say that the evidence for your own non-human ancestry is contained in every cell in your body.. it is my experience that jws are generally quite ignorant (not in a pejorative sense) of the scientific case.

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  TD

  From left to right:

  1. A. afarensis

  2. A. africanus

  3. H. habilis

  4. H. erectus

  5. H. heidelbergensis

  6. H. neanderthalensis

  7. H. sapiens sapiens

  8. H. sapiens

  The point (As you can probably guess) was not to claim a dirct evolutionary relationship from one to the next, but to illustrate the fact that when we talk about human evolution, we're not talking about apes.
  
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  62

  Evolution - A Conversation with Alex Williams

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  alex - thank you for your offer to have a conversation about evolution.. i accept the scientific evidence that all life - including humans - evolved from a common ancestor through unguided evolution over millions of years.

  this isn't even a controversial position in the scientific community.. the evidence rests on the data from many interconnected fields including paleontology, comparative anatomy, geology and especially genetics.

  it is no exaggeration to say that the evidence for your own non-human ancestry is contained in every cell in your body.. it is my experience that jws are generally quite ignorant (not in a pejorative sense) of the scientific case.

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  TD

  I think the game of "Spot the human" is an interesting thought experiment for those on the creation side of the isle.
  

  

  Most would not consider a creature with the cranial capacity of a chimpanzee to be human, but what happens when we get to half or three quarter the size of modern man?

  How would one draw a line? Where would it be drawn?
  
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  40

  Questions About the Watchtower's View on Blood Transfusions.

  by Pallbearer in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  i admit to not being very well informed about the watchtower's view on blood transfusions.

  i have a couple of questions that i hope someone here is able to answer.. i understand that the watchtower now considers it to be okay to receive blood fractions.. my first question is: are all fractions considered to be permissible?

  and if not, specifically which fractions are not permissible?.

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  TD

  David who was thirsty exclaimed he longed for water after being pinned down,his warriors heard that and fought to get water to David,but what did he do when they offered it to him?

  He refused to drink it. ---Poured it out on the ground.

  Why did he do this?

  Because his (David's) men could easily have been killed. The water, in this instance, represented their lives, which they risked in obtaining it. David even compares it to drinking their blood.
  

  I'm not sure how this supports the JW position on blood. If anything, it seems to directly contradict it.

  David refused to place a higher value on water than human life
  

  Aren't you doing exactly the opposite of what David did when you place a higher value on blood, which (in the context of death) represents life than you place on life itself?
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  40

  Questions About the Watchtower's View on Blood Transfusions.

  by Pallbearer in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  i admit to not being very well informed about the watchtower's view on blood transfusions.

  i have a couple of questions that i hope someone here is able to answer.. i understand that the watchtower now considers it to be okay to receive blood fractions.. my first question is: are all fractions considered to be permissible?

  and if not, specifically which fractions are not permissible?.

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• 

  TD

  Alex,
  

  Whats the difference to taking a blood transfusion and just drinking blood

  The former is a tissue transplant

  The latter is an act of cannibalism

  That is a substantial distinction, physically, ethically and morally.

  ...believers are told to abstain from blood

  In the context of a dispute over whether Christians should be circumcised and follow the Law, the ruling was to:

  "Keep abstaining....from blood"

  I'm quoting your own NWT, which in my opinion, is quite accurate here.
  

  The clear connotation is the continuation of an existing prohibition that was already being kept.
  

  And this is not simply my opinion. As I've already pointed out, your own church publications acknowledge that this was in fact, a reference to the eating of blood as forbidden in the Law.
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  40

  Questions About the Watchtower's View on Blood Transfusions.

  by Pallbearer in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  i admit to not being very well informed about the watchtower's view on blood transfusions.

  i have a couple of questions that i hope someone here is able to answer.. i understand that the watchtower now considers it to be okay to receive blood fractions.. my first question is: are all fractions considered to be permissible?

  and if not, specifically which fractions are not permissible?.

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• 

  TD

  Alex,
  

  Leaving the procured blood continuously attached to the patient through the collection tubing makes the procedure acceptable to most Jehovah's Witness patients.

  Yes and this was the point I was driving at. You quoted an article from a time (1981) when this procedure was not acceptable to JW's in any form, as it was considered a storage of blood outside the body. (To be honest it is difficult to see that much blood (~Two units) collected in storage bags and not think it's being stored.)

  As I said, JW HLC's recommend both uses of autologous blood today, (hemodilution and cell salvage) and in some cases have actually donated the equipment for the latter.

  Rather that quote articles back and forth about a friendly discussion?

  Do you believe that transfusion falls under the umbrella of biblical prohibitions against eating blood?

  If so, why? I honestly don't see how the argument can be made without establishing an equivalency of some sort.....