TD

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Posts by TD

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  121

  Babylon the Great

  by Godlyman in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  do jw's still believe that babylon the great is the empire of false religion?

  inquiring minds want to know .

  estephan.

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  TD

  Fisherman:
  

  1. The author of Revelation is God

  Do Jehovah's Witnesses acknowledge the peculiarities of Revelation? Eusebius (quoting Dionysius) said in his church history:
  

  Moreover, it can also be shown that the diction of the Gospel and Epistle differs from that of the Apocalypse. For they were written not only without error as regards the Greek language, but also with elegance in their expression, in their reasoning, and in their entire structure. They are far indeed from betraying any barbarism or solecism, or any vulgarism whatever. For the writer had, as it seems, both the requisites of discourse—that is, the gift of knowledge and the gift of expression—as the Lord had bestowed them both upon him.

  I do not deny that the other writer saw a revelation and received knowledge and prophecy. I perceive, however, that his dialect and language are not accurate Greek, but that he uses barbarous idioms, and, in some places, solecisms. It is unnecessary to point these out here, for I would not have anyone think that I have said these things in a spirit of ridicule, for I have said what I have only with the purpose of showing clearly the difference between the writings.

  Without disputing the idea of inspiration, it does seem that the writer of Revelation was free to use his own words and expressions.
  
  

  2. Babylon the Great has not been destroyed yet.

  Isn't that a circular prior assumption of your own viewpoint?
  
• 
  121

  Babylon the Great

  by Godlyman in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  do jw's still believe that babylon the great is the empire of false religion?

  inquiring minds want to know .

  estephan.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  TD

  Fisherman,
  

  It makes a lot of sense to me....

  But isn't that what's wrong here? The book wasn't written to you. (Or me either) It's not a product of our culture, our language, our history, our sensibilities, or any other meaningful frame of reference.

  The author's s usage of ideas and themes from his own culture and time period is not irrelevant and treating it as such elevates the interpreter over the audience for whom the book was written.
  
• 
  121

  Babylon the Great

  by Godlyman in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  do jw's still believe that babylon the great is the empire of false religion?

  inquiring minds want to know .

  estephan.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  TD

  ....Babylon the Great definitely referred to 1st century Rome, 'a city with a kingdom over other kings' that 'sits on 7 hills'.

  ^^This^^

  Seriously, the symbolism would have been blindingly obvious at the time.

  Rome was already viewed as a "Greater Babylon" for having conquered Judea just as Babylon had done centuries earlier.

  Rome was already personified as a goddess, which the Jews hated for obvious reasons.

  This goddess was already commonly depicted as sitting upon seven hills
  

  The pagan, bare right breast / naked justice motif was already offense to the Jews and invited the term, "whore"

  (Fundamentalist Christians are offended by this symbol even today. Some might remember Attorney General John Ashcroft demanding that the larger than life statue of Lady Justice standing on the dais at the Justice Department be covered up)

  All of these themes came together on a number of silver and bronze coins depicting the goddess Roma as a conqueror:
  

  
  

  Apocalyptic can be prophetic, but it was often not. And the farther you stray from anything familiar to the immediate audience, the farther down the rabbit hole you go.
  
• 
  121

  Babylon the Great

  by Godlyman in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  do jw's still believe that babylon the great is the empire of false religion?

  inquiring minds want to know .

  estephan.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  TD

  The anti-Jewish interpretation dates from the 17th and 18th centuries (e.g Hardouin, Abauzit, etc.) and is frankly a little weird, given the context of Roman persecution.
  
• 
  121

  Babylon the Great

  by Godlyman in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  do jw's still believe that babylon the great is the empire of false religion?

  inquiring minds want to know .

  estephan.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  TD

  Seriously? Are you prepared to defend The Finished Mystery? Or even Then Is Finished the Mystery of God, which is more recent, but hasn't really aged well either.

  Both are good examples of what I'm talking about
• 
  18

  Book of life in pencil

  by road to nowhere in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  where is the scripture about using pencil?.

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  TD

  Where is the scripture about using pencil?

  I don't know if this is what you're thinking of, but there is a JW illustration along those lines. (i.e. By being faithful, your name is "penciled" in today.)

  Since JW's don't believe the "book of life" is actually opened until the end of the 1000 years, it's not entirely in line with what they themselves teach.
  
• 
  121

  Babylon the Great

  by Godlyman in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  do jw's still believe that babylon the great is the empire of false religion?

  inquiring minds want to know .

  estephan.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  TD

  It's a genre of literature known as apocalyptic. It makes sense as a message written in a specific manner at a specific time and a specific place to a specific audience in response to a specific problem, but attempts to interpret it outside that context age badly and eventually become laughable.
  
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  26

  Noah's Ark - Kentucky

  by BoogerMan in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  regardless of belief/non-belief in the bible account, why is the ark nearly always depicted by both believers & non-believers as a huge boat, with a rounded hull & stern, and a tapered bow?

  https://arkencounter.com/ .

  the ark was crate shaped according to the measurements.

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  TD

  --Two different words in Hebrew

  תֵּבַת - tēḇâ is the name of the floating basket Moses was placed in and Noah's ark. AFAIK it's only used for those two things
  

  הָאָרֹן - 'ārôn is used for box-like objects including the coffin containing Joseph's bones, the ark of the covenant and money chests
  
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  49

  Early Hominem. Neanderthals. Evolution.

  by solameguy12 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  so i grew up as a witness but i’m no longer active, i have some family that still practices very seriously.

  but i don’t want to ask them my question.

  but what does the bible and teaching’s of jw’s say about early hominids?

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  TD

  but I don't think the depicted photos of the skulls are to the same scale

  You're right. --Best I could do with what I had.

  The point was to show a morphological gradient separate from any claim of evolutionary relationship.
  
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  26

  Noah's Ark - Kentucky

  by BoogerMan in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  regardless of belief/non-belief in the bible account, why is the ark nearly always depicted by both believers & non-believers as a huge boat, with a rounded hull & stern, and a tapered bow?

  https://arkencounter.com/ .

  the ark was crate shaped according to the measurements.

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  3. 
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  TD

  On the "crate" vs "boat" shape:

  This is an area where Evangelicals are right and JW's are wrong.

  Although the scales described in the Genesis story are unlikely, a boat shape is much more plausible. A rounded hull would absorb and spread out the force of impacts (i.e. waves) whereas a rectangular box would transmit those forces directly to the stress points (i.e. The corners)

  That's why a bowl is stronger than a box of the same material (Which is something that can be easily tested)
  

  We use width, height and depth to describe all manner of objects, from cars to trains, to airplanes, so there is really no reason to make that inference from the story to begin with.