Posts by TD

89

Myth of 1914

by peacefulpete in

the wt engages in history revisionism when insisting the world changed overnight in 1914. in fact the european power struggles that came to a head were centuries old.

millions of lives had been lost in the wars of the 19th century, with the world a powder keg the years prior to the assassination of franz ferdinand in june 1914 which is often said, albeit rather arbitrarily, as the start of the war that escalated over the next 4 years into the great war.

take a look at these two pages and ask if the wt's interpretation of history seems accurate to you.

TD

Life was different after the Great War, (Which is how the JW's manage to pedal the alleged significance of 1914 in Europe, which has a much better grasp of their own history than Americans do) but I agree that tensions had been at a boiling point for decades.

Even today, a German historian would likely disagree with this statement:

"While one camp, joining Great Britain, France, and Russia (Triple Entente) strove to preserve the fragile balance between the European great powers, the second camp formed around German Empire, Austria-Hungary, and Italy (Central Powers) was challenging it."

(Especially the part about Italy)

5

Parable as an example of Editorial Fatigue.

by peacefulpete in

16 the first appeared, saying, ‘[d]master, your [e]mina has made ten minas more.’ 17 and he said to him, ‘well done, good slave, because you have been faithful in a very little thing, you are to be in authority over ten cities.’ 18 the second came, saying, ‘your [f]mina, [g]master, has made five minas.’ 19 and he said to him also, ‘and you are to be over five cities.’ 20 another came, saying, ‘master, here is your mina, which i kept put away in a handkerchief; 21 for i was afraid of you, because you are an exacting man; you take up what you did not lay down and reap what you did not sow.’ 22 he *said to him, ‘[h]by your own words i will judge you, you worthless slave.

23 then why did you not put my money in the bank, and having come, i would have collected it with interest?’ 24 then he said to the bystanders, ‘take the mina away from him and give it to the one who has the ten minas.’ 25 and they said to him, ‘master, he has ten minas already.’ 26 i tell you that to everyone who has, more shall be given, but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away.

luke....‘take the mina away from him and give it to the one who has the ten minas.

TD

Interesting article. Luke's placement of the feeding of the five thousand at or near the hometown of Peter, Andrew and Phillip (Bethsaida) really does make it nonsensical for the crowd to seek lodging and food "..in the surrounding villages and countryside" (..εἰς τὰς κύκλῳ κώμας καὶ τοῦς ἀγροὺς καταλύσωσιν καὶ εὕρωσιν ἐπισιτισμόν)

10

Who Will Conquer the World in the 1970’s?

by FatFreek 2005 in

this quote is from a kingdom ministry, advertising to its members (i was one until 1977) in the year 1970.. "a new circuit assembly program is scheduled to begin in september.

we believe you will find it most informative and upbuilding.

the public talk will be “who will conquer the world in the 1970’s?” kingdom ministry announcements, july 1970, p. 3".

TD

The JW's were big fans of Paul Ehrlich (The Population Bomb) and Rachel Carson (Silent Spring) back then.

They (The JW's) don't seem to be as susceptible to sensationalism today, but I could be wrong.

121

Babylon the Great

by Godlyman in

do jw's still believe that babylon the great is the empire of false religion?

inquiring minds want to know .

estephan.

TD

Fisherman:

1. The author of Revelation is God

Do Jehovah's Witnesses acknowledge the peculiarities of Revelation? Eusebius (quoting Dionysius) said in his church history:

Moreover, it can also be shown that the diction of the Gospel and Epistle differs from that of the Apocalypse. For they were written not only without error as regards the Greek language, but also with elegance in their expression, in their reasoning, and in their entire structure. They are far indeed from betraying any barbarism or solecism, or any vulgarism whatever. For the writer had, as it seems, both the requisites of discourse—that is, the gift of knowledge and the gift of expression—as the Lord had bestowed them both upon him.

I do not deny that the other writer saw a revelation and received knowledge and prophecy. I perceive, however, that his dialect and language are not accurate Greek, but that he uses barbarous idioms, and, in some places, solecisms. It is unnecessary to point these out here, for I would not have anyone think that I have said these things in a spirit of ridicule, for I have said what I have only with the purpose of showing clearly the difference between the writings.

Without disputing the idea of inspiration, it does seem that the writer of Revelation was free to use his own words and expressions.

2. Babylon the Great has not been destroyed yet.

Isn't that a circular prior assumption of your own viewpoint?

121

Babylon the Great

by Godlyman in

do jw's still believe that babylon the great is the empire of false religion?

inquiring minds want to know .

estephan.

TD

Fisherman,

It makes a lot of sense to me....

But isn't that what's wrong here? The book wasn't written to you. (Or me either) It's not a product of our culture, our language, our history, our sensibilities, or any other meaningful frame of reference.

The author's s usage of ideas and themes from his own culture and time period is not irrelevant and treating it as such elevates the interpreter over the audience for whom the book was written.

121

Babylon the Great

by Godlyman in

do jw's still believe that babylon the great is the empire of false religion?

inquiring minds want to know .

estephan.

TD

....Babylon the Great definitely referred to 1st century Rome, 'a city with a kingdom over other kings' that 'sits on 7 hills'.

^^This^^

Seriously, the symbolism would have been blindingly obvious at the time.

Rome was already viewed as a "Greater Babylon" for having conquered Judea just as Babylon had done centuries earlier.

Rome was already personified as a goddess, which the Jews hated for obvious reasons.

This goddess was already commonly depicted as sitting upon seven hills

The pagan, bare right breast / naked justice motif was already offense to the Jews and invited the term, "whore"

(Fundamentalist Christians are offended by this symbol even today. Some might remember Attorney General John Ashcroft demanding that the larger than life statue of Lady Justice standing on the dais at the Justice Department be covered up)

All of these themes came together on a number of silver and bronze coins depicting the goddess Roma as a conqueror:

Apocalyptic can be prophetic, but it was often not. And the farther you stray from anything familiar to the immediate audience, the farther down the rabbit hole you go.

121

Babylon the Great

by Godlyman in

do jw's still believe that babylon the great is the empire of false religion?

inquiring minds want to know .

estephan.

TD

The anti-Jewish interpretation dates from the 17th and 18th centuries (e.g Hardouin, Abauzit, etc.) and is frankly a little weird, given the context of Roman persecution.

121

Babylon the Great

by Godlyman in

do jw's still believe that babylon the great is the empire of false religion?

inquiring minds want to know .

estephan.

TD

Seriously? Are you prepared to defend The Finished Mystery? Or even Then Is Finished the Mystery of God, which is more recent, but hasn't really aged well either.

Both are good examples of what I'm talking about

18

Book of life in pencil

by road to nowhere in

where is the scripture about using pencil?.

TD

Where is the scripture about using pencil?

I don't know if this is what you're thinking of, but there is a JW illustration along those lines. (i.e. By being faithful, your name is "penciled" in today.)

Since JW's don't believe the "book of life" is actually opened until the end of the 1000 years, it's not entirely in line with what they themselves teach.

121

Babylon the Great

by Godlyman in

do jw's still believe that babylon the great is the empire of false religion?

inquiring minds want to know .

estephan.

TD

It's a genre of literature known as apocalyptic. It makes sense as a message written in a specific manner at a specific time and a specific place to a specific audience in response to a specific problem, but attempts to interpret it outside that context age badly and eventually become laughable.