TD

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Posts by TD

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  282

  How Will They End 1914 Teaching?

  by EmptyInside in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i'm sure this has been discussed, but 1914 has to go away.

  instead of, the overlapping generation teaching, they should have just ditched 1914. .

  they should have done that a long time ago with 1975. it's the last of the teachings in the charles taze russell era.. i'm thinking they just will stop talking about it, and it will be out of the mind of the rank and file loyal witnesses .

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  TD

  Fisherman
  

  Nobody is until they come out of the gt.

  You've hit the nail on the head

  Jehovah's Witnesses (Since 1970) have justified the notion that the great crowd could be identified as "prospective" members prior to the millennium via the idea that “time of the end” would not exceed the lifespan of a single generation.

  They assured everyone that the “great crowd including many of the earliest members thereof” would live to see the “great tribulation” and therefore had the prospect of surviving it.
  

  I’ve cited an explicit example of that teaching already, but there were plenty more (Which I can quote if you want)

  The chronological understanding of the 1914 generation was done away with years ago, but it persists in the great crowd teaching which has never been adjusted.
  

  Modifying this teaching is not as simple as seems at first glance. For example, do the “Other sheep” wash their robes and make them white in the blood of the lamb? Do the “Other sheep” benefit from the Ransom prior to the millennium? These are all things the Bible (Again, as JW’s interpret it) says specifically about the “great crowd” and no one else.
  
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  282

  How Will They End 1914 Teaching?

  by EmptyInside in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i'm sure this has been discussed, but 1914 has to go away.

  instead of, the overlapping generation teaching, they should have just ditched 1914. .

  they should have done that a long time ago with 1975. it's the last of the teachings in the charles taze russell era.. i'm thinking they just will stop talking about it, and it will be out of the mind of the rank and file loyal witnesses .

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  TD

  Fisherman,
  

  That’s not what I’m pointing out...

  Then it has nothing to do with the question I asked.

  Look, I shouldn't have to walk you back to period Watchtowers and quote for you the reasons why members of the great crowd needed to suffer the same trials as the anointed and prove themselves faithful in the exact same manner.

  slimboyfat and I (And you) discussed this at length about a year ago and I provided copious quotes.

  The point is that those 1935ers died and were not members of the Great Crowd because they died and did nit survive the gt.

  Well yes, that is the point. You're ahead of scholar at least. They were not members of the great crowd. They were not even prospective members of the great crowd as JW's have taught since 1970. Do I have to show you how JW teachings on the Ransom and how it applies during the time of the end does not cover or account for that fact? Or conversely, can you show me, when and how the great crowd teaching was adjusted?
  
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  282

  How Will They End 1914 Teaching?

  by EmptyInside in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i'm sure this has been discussed, but 1914 has to go away.

  instead of, the overlapping generation teaching, they should have just ditched 1914. .

  they should have done that a long time ago with 1975. it's the last of the teachings in the charles taze russell era.. i'm thinking they just will stop talking about it, and it will be out of the mind of the rank and file loyal witnesses .

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  TD

  Neil
  

  How so? An adjustment to What?

  If you don't see the problem with the 1984 quote I've provided, then I don't think we have a whole lot to discuss.

  If you believe that view expressed in that quote has been adjusted and there is some other basis (Other than a chronological understanding of a generation) to identify "prospective" members of the great crowd today, then I would appreciate a reference or two.
  
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  282

  How Will They End 1914 Teaching?

  by EmptyInside in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i'm sure this has been discussed, but 1914 has to go away.

  instead of, the overlapping generation teaching, they should have just ditched 1914. .

  they should have done that a long time ago with 1975. it's the last of the teachings in the charles taze russell era.. i'm thinking they just will stop talking about it, and it will be out of the mind of the rank and file loyal witnesses .

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• 

  TD

  Neil,
  

  No, it is a validated doctrine of Biblical Theology

  I've listed to you for a long time (Here, Channel C and elsewhere) and I know you grasp the problem, as the math is really quite simple:

  "God’s infallible Word depicts this group as ‘coming out of the great tribulation,’ being survivors of it, living right on into God’s New Order without ever having to die. (Revelation 7:9, 10, 14; John 11:26) The early members of this group are now in their 60’s or 70’s or older. Jehovah did not allow the ingathering of this group to begin too soon. The “great crowd,” including many of the earliest members thereof, will survive into the “new earth.”"

  Fast forward the clock 40 years and it is clear that an adjustment is on the horizon.
  
• 
  282

  How Will They End 1914 Teaching?

  by EmptyInside in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i'm sure this has been discussed, but 1914 has to go away.

  instead of, the overlapping generation teaching, they should have just ditched 1914. .

  they should have done that a long time ago with 1975. it's the last of the teachings in the charles taze russell era.. i'm thinking they just will stop talking about it, and it will be out of the mind of the rank and file loyal witnesses .

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• 

  TD

  Fisherman
  

  How does that debunk 1914?

  It doesn't, at least not directly. Like I said, quibbling over exegeses and chronology will not remedy the passage of time or undo the damage its done. The remedy is going to require adjustments, which could include the significance of 1914 itself.
  

  In Rev, Jesus told the congregations....

  I don't think you're coming to grips with the question. Anointed Christians were willing to endure the horrors of the arena for the crown of heavenly life. Paul said, "...he pummeled his body and led it as a slave." Without that hope in Christ, they would have been men, "most to be pitied."

  How would you explain to a Bibelforscher that the end wasn't going to come in their lifetime anyway and that they were simply going to grow old, die and await resurrection just like everyone else? How would you explain that the Purple triangle was unnecessary?
  
• 
  282

  How Will They End 1914 Teaching?

  by EmptyInside in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i'm sure this has been discussed, but 1914 has to go away.

  instead of, the overlapping generation teaching, they should have just ditched 1914. .

  they should have done that a long time ago with 1975. it's the last of the teachings in the charles taze russell era.. i'm thinking they just will stop talking about it, and it will be out of the mind of the rank and file loyal witnesses .

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  TD

  Scholar,

  That was nearly 88 years ago and those people who stood up were not children.
  

  It is clear in retrospect that they were not the great crowd as JW's understand the term. The great crowd comes out of (i.e. survives) the great tribulation and those people did not even live to see it.

  You can call it bright flash of light if you want. I would call it a rip in the fabric of JW theology that must needs be fixed. The idea that the proximity of the end justified the identification of the great crowd in 1935 might have made sense 50 years ago, but it just doesn't work anymore.

  Salvation, the Ransom and the two Christian hopes are not trivial doctrines and modifying the significance of 1914 might actually be easier than tinkering with them.
  

  
  
• 
  282

  How Will They End 1914 Teaching?

  by EmptyInside in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i'm sure this has been discussed, but 1914 has to go away.

  instead of, the overlapping generation teaching, they should have just ditched 1914. .

  they should have done that a long time ago with 1975. it's the last of the teachings in the charles taze russell era.. i'm thinking they just will stop talking about it, and it will be out of the mind of the rank and file loyal witnesses .

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• 

  TD

  Scholar,

  I'm afraid that answer doesn't remedy the damage to some very important JW teachings specific to the "time of the end" including, but not limited to the Ransom and how it applies to Christians today.
  

  I also think it's a little blasé by implication if nothing else. How would you explain to a survivor of Auschwitz that what they were told in 1935 was wrong?

  Realistically, I don't suppose you could (Not without repercussions) as the JW's (As recently as 2019) were still hailing the 1935 convention as a bright flash of light.
  
• 
  282

  How Will They End 1914 Teaching?

  by EmptyInside in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i'm sure this has been discussed, but 1914 has to go away.

  instead of, the overlapping generation teaching, they should have just ditched 1914. .

  they should have done that a long time ago with 1975. it's the last of the teachings in the charles taze russell era.. i'm thinking they just will stop talking about it, and it will be out of the mind of the rank and file loyal witnesses .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  TD

  Scholar,

  Quibbling over exegeses and chronology will not remedy the passage of time or undo its damage to teachings that sprang from the 1914 chronology and the alleged proximity of the end.
  

  Where, for example are the people who where told point blank in 1935 that they were the great multitude?

  The last person I knew who was there and remembered that event died of old age in the late 1970's

  
  
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  15

  JWs at Culture Fest

  by peacefulpete in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the state university where we live has cultural festivals educating the public about art, food and music of the minorities in the community.

  it is also an opportunity for some to generate a little income selling their wares and food.

  the jws have successfully put up a booth right in the campus building and used it to actively proselytize and distribute literature.

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  TD

  ^^What Joe said^^

  The JW's have gained admittance under false pretenses
  
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  8

  How many terms does the bible bother to explain

  by Blotty in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the bible is well known for its ellipsis* and its lack of explanatory statements of a term used.

  there are exceptions in grammatical patterns, such as john exclusively using archon for ruler in his writings - which make the term self evident.sin - is defined"one" (unity) - is somewhat defined and also self evident from the context (no exceptions, every person part of that unity is listed in the context)an interesting thing to see would be how many terms are actually used and explained.

  *the omission from speech or writing of a word or words that are superfluous or able to be understood from contextual clues..

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  TD

  Ellipses (Like 1 Peter 3:3 for example) are sometimes used to indicate incomplete grammar.
  

  The presumption that the reader understands terms is a good argument (One of many) that the bible was written to, for and by people who knew the "backstory" and not us today.