No complaints, other than time slipping away much too quickly.
Best wishes to everyone.
Posts by TD
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10This is a Q for my aged Friends ....?...60 plus ?
by smiddy3 inover-all how would you view your life on this planet so far ?
fair , good , satisfactory ,not so good ,terrible.,?.
let me explain if i can ,i didn`t become a jw until my very late teens 19 and more likely close to 20. .
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TD
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Blood question re: sample for testing
by carla inwhy can jw's give blood samples for testing in a medical setting?
i was with someone once (non jw related) who was getting multiple tests done and they must have taken a good pint all together in separate vials.
how do jw's square this with their blood policies?
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TD
The JW argument against the storage of blood is a rewording of the instructions given to Israelite hunters. Wild animals don't let you walk up to them and slit their throats in the Kosher manner and methods of putting a wild creature to death from a distance (e.g. An arrow, a spear, a snare, etc.) do not adequately bleed the carcass.
Residual blood needed to be removed from the body by being poured out. The JW's have subtly reworded this obligation into the stricture, "Blood removed from the body must be poured out", which would normally preclude any and all storage of blood.
Here's an example from the 1990 brochure, How Can Blood Save Your Life?:
"Witnesses believe that blood removed from the body should be disposed of, so they do not accept autotransfusion of predeposited blood. Techniques for intraoperative collection or hemodilution that involve blood storage are objectionable to them." (Cell salvage and isovolemic hemodilution procedures have both been modified slightly to make them acceptable to JW's)
Here's an example from a 1989 Watchtower:
"We have long appreciated that such stored blood certainly is no longer part of the person. It has been completely removed from him, so it should be disposed of in line with God’s Law: “You should pour it out upon the ground as water"
The use of blood for testing purposes is rationalized via the idea that the amount of blood is small; the storage is transient and not for the purposes of consumption or transfusion anyway. (As TonusOH points out above).
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Basic Blood Questions For Witnesses
by Vanderhoven7 inbasic blood questions for jehovah's witnesses.
where does the bible outlaw blood transfusions?
(acts 15:29 gen.9:4) .
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TD
Fisherman
The Decree clearly forbids the eating of blood. Whether it is binding upon Christians as the JW's and a few other groups teach is a slightly different discussion.
The JW's have misquoted and misrepresented medical sources on this teaching almost from the beginning. (I can give examples)
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How to debunk the 1914 calculus ONLY using JW publications?
by psyco ini remember having read somewhere, but i cannot find it anymore, that it is possible to debunk the 1914 calculus using only jw publications, like "insight on the scriptures" (chronologies) for example.. do you have any sources about that to suggest to me?.
thanks..
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TD
I believe it was being called the "KISS" method years ago.
The average JW can't follow it and their internet apologists won't accept it, but for whatever it's worth:
https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/55372/586-587-k-approach-no-vat4956-ptolemy-josephus-needed
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Wedding Anniversary #62
by smiddy3 inhi friends , i thought i would just let you know it`s my wife and i, 62nd wedding anniversary today.. not that we were able to celebrate much as my wife wasn`t up to it today .. however i did manage to give her a couple of champers at home ,while i had a couple o ales with friends down at the club and managed to put on lotto for tonite and a couple of keno`s from the club ,you never know the god`s might smile upon us for doing something right after all these years.?.
take care guys.. smiddy 3.
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TD
Heartfelt congratulations!
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Basic Blood Questions For Witnesses
by Vanderhoven7 inbasic blood questions for jehovah's witnesses.
where does the bible outlaw blood transfusions?
(acts 15:29 gen.9:4) .
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TD
An analogy is a useful rhetorical device for visualizing a principle after it has been established, but does not an argument make
Or as Plato said:
“Arguments that make their point by means of similarities are impostors, and, unless you are on your guard against them, will quite readily deceive you.”
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I've explained the flaws in the "abstain from blood" argument at length.
When it comes to the first abstention, (things sacrificed to idols) the JW's readily acknowledge:
a. That "abstain" negates actions, not objects
b. That a finite act is required to complete the thought
c. That in this case, that act is idolatry.
d. That what the Decree actually forbade was therefore the eating of an idol sacrifice as part of a pagan ritual. (I am quoting from JW literature here.)
The honesty of JW writers on this matter is required to resolve what would otherwise be a serious contradiction in their teaching.
The second abstention (blood) is governed by the exact same rubric. The rules of definition and grammar don't change from one sentence to the next and they certainly don't change in mid-sentence.
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Basic Blood Questions For Witnesses
by Vanderhoven7 inbasic blood questions for jehovah's witnesses.
where does the bible outlaw blood transfusions?
(acts 15:29 gen.9:4) .
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TD
Everyone certainly has to make their own decision.
Whole blood transfusions still occur on the battlefield, but that is not a situation a JW is likely to encounter.
In a hospital setting, patients are usually administered only the component they actually need because, (A) It is safer for the patient and (B) It is much more cost effective.
I can easily envision the next major adjustment to the teaching (Assuming there is one) as a reduction in the scope of prohibited components to whole blood alone. Partial components of all types would be allowed. The JW's could very honestly and truthfully point out that biblical prohibitions against blood are all references to whole blood. The JW's leadership could save face and the human cost of the teaching would be greatly reduced.
But then what do I know?
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Basic Blood Questions For Witnesses
by Vanderhoven7 inbasic blood questions for jehovah's witnesses.
where does the bible outlaw blood transfusions?
(acts 15:29 gen.9:4) .
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TD
Hemoglobin is constructed as a ring molecule called a porphyrin, which is difficult to break down. Hemoglobin is instead converted in a series of steps into a toxic waste product known as bile, which gives feces their characteristic brown color. Bile does serve a useful purpose on its way out, but is not nutrition in and of itself
The one single blood component capable of providing anything resembling a nutritional benefit when transfused is albumin, which is an allowed component under JW policy.
(Under extreme conditions, the body will consume its own albumin, resulting in the distended stomach and swollen joints you've probably seen in pictures.)
Albumin transfusions were given to starving people in post-war Japan, but we have better preparations today and this is no longer done.
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Basic Blood Questions For Witnesses
by Vanderhoven7 inbasic blood questions for jehovah's witnesses.
where does the bible outlaw blood transfusions?
(acts 15:29 gen.9:4) .
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TD
Fisherman,
Fetal blood cells persist in the maternal blood because they are nucleated and able to reproduce.
Erythrocytes in adults are simply capsules of hemoglobin and when they become damaged, they are broken down and excreted. The technical term is enzymatic degradation. This happens with both your own blood and donated blood.
As the cells in an organ age, they die and are replaced. The dead cells are broken down and excreted. This happens with both your own organs and donated organs.
None of these processes constitutes ingestion.
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I've heard the argument that, "the Bible does not sanction any medical use of blood or other use of blood except for ritual" before, but the idea that a prohibition on the "use of blood" can be derived from the Bible's silence is soundly contradicted by JW literature itself.
To illustrate, the March 1, 1989 issue of The Watchtower described intraoperative autotransfusion explicitly as an "autologous blood use."
"A final example of autologous blood use involves recovering and reusing blood during surgery. Equipment is used to aspirate blood from the wound, pump it out through a filter (to remove clots or debris) or a centrifuge (to eliminate fluids), and then direct it back into the patient. " (Emphasis mine)
The previous two examples of "autologous blood use" in the captioned article were isovolemic hemodilution and predonation. So here we had three autologous uses of blood, two of which were matters of conscience and one of which was not. Clearly some uses of blood are distinguishable from others.
The August 8, 1993 issue of Awake! explicitly acknowledges that allogenic blood is used in the production of the hepatitis B vaccine:
"These active immunizations include all the baby shots and the injections that are commonly considered as vaccinations. With one exception (discussed later), these do not involve the use of blood in any step of production?..One other active immunization deserves attention because it is the only active immunization made from blood. It is a hepatitis-B vaccine called Heptavax-B." (Emphasis mine)
The October 1, 1994 issue of The Watchtower amplifies on the subject of "baby shots" by acknowledging that blood products are indeed used in their production:
"Many find this noteworthy, since some vaccines that are not prepared from blood may contain a relatively small amount of plasma albumin that was used or added to stabilize the ingredients in the preparation."
Examples would include MMR II, MUMPSVAX, ATTENUVAX and MURAVAX II by Merck & Co. The growth mediums for these vaccines (e.g. Medium 199, MEM, etc) typically contain both human albumin and fetal bovine serum. Additionally the vaccines themselves contain human albumin as either an adjuvant or excipient. (or both) Other examples of this include VARIVAX and VAQTA, also by Merck & Co., EOLARIX, INFANRIX, and GLAXO by SmithKline Beecham, PENTACEL by Aventis Pasteur, and Connaught Laboratories IPV just to name a few. The acceptance of some of these vaccines is virtually unavoidable in modern society.
Invoking an unconditional argument in defense of what they themselves explicitly acknowledge to be a conditional prohibition yet again exposes the confusion of Watchtower writers.
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Basic Blood Questions For Witnesses
by Vanderhoven7 inbasic blood questions for jehovah's witnesses.
where does the bible outlaw blood transfusions?
(acts 15:29 gen.9:4) .
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TD
Interesting
I illustrate the fallacy of assuming moral equivalency from superficial similarity using biblical examples. (no less...)
And although on one hand, you agree with the examples, you proceed in the very next breath to frame an argument of similarity (?)
If you're using the word, "ingestion" in the medical sense, you're misusing it, as it is specific to the alimentary canal. If you're using the word in the more generic, everyday sense, you're equivocating, which is a logical fallacy.