Posts by TD

35

Transfusion once again

by krzysiek in

what i cannot understand is why jw are so determined not to allow to transfuse blood.

it's anachronism!

the governing body has changed so many their doctrines, why cannot they change that?

TD

The Bible is clear on Jehovah's thoughts on abstaining from blood.

What SOJ has done here is ungrammatical. You cannot invoke an incomplete predicate apart from the context that completes it and pretend it is a statement of complete thought. Doing so betrays an ignorance not only of the source language, but of what is probably his or her own native tongue. There is no such thing as abstinence from a physical object.

If SOJ has any respect whatsoever for the Bible, he or she should be deeply ashamed.

65

I Am Mine

by Euphemism in

jw
friends

when the pearl jam single i am mine came out a little over a year ago, i was still a witness.

it's easy to see why the lyrics appealed to me at a time when i was subconsciously trying to free myself from the mind control.. i know that i was born and i know that i?ll die.. the in between is mine.. i am mine.. .... we?re different behind the eyes, there?s no need to hide .

.... the sorrow grows bigger when the sorrow's denied.. i only know my mind.. i am mine.. freedom has been a gradual process.

TD

Good for you Dan -- Congratulations.

I enjoyed "The Ontology of Daniel Glick."

Tom

16

My New Years resolutions....

by logansrun in

jw
friends

bradley's new years resolutions:

1) have a small part in kicking bush out of office and making the world a safer place.

2) fulfill my lifelong fantasy of being interviewed by playboy magazine.. 3) abraham lincoln, andrew jackson, benjamin franklin.... 4) sororiety girls.

TD

5) World Piece.

What piece of the world do you want?

21

Who is Ted Jaracz and why is he so disliked?

by imallgrowedup in

jw
friends

.

just wondering who this guy is - can anyone help?!

growedup.

TD

I've been told that his nickname among Bethelites is "Darth Vadar." Apparently, he lives up to it too.

3

A Nautical Quiz Me Hearties!

by Englishman in

jw
friends

just for fun, let's see how good your sea-faring knowledge is!.

ready?.

1. the new liner, queen mary 2, is due to be named this week at southampton.

TD

OK!

1. The new liner, Queen Mary 2, is due to be named this week at Southampton. But what makes it a "liner" along with the only other liner left in the world, the QE 2?

A ?liner? carries both passengers and goods.

2. What was Admiral Nelsons ship called? In what year was Nelson killed and in what famous battle? Where is his ship now?

At what point in his career? I believe his first command was the HMS Boreas. At the battle of the Nile it was HMS Vanguard. At the battle of Trafalgar, I think it was the HMS Victory.

He died in the Battle of Trafalgar where he defeated Napoleon, at 4:30 p.m. October 21, 1805. Certainly the most decisive battle in the history of the Royal Navy

3. In the film "Titanic" we see the ship's propellors thrown into reverse. However, only the outer 2 actually do go into reverse, the central propellor stays still. Why was that? What was written beneath the name "Titanic" on the ships stern?

Whether any of the screws were really reversed is still the subject of some debate. None of the surviving engine room crew remembered such an order. At any rate, the additional propwash from the two outside screws would have increased the drag on the rudder thereby increasing its effectiveness.

"Liverpool"

3

Great Crowd Proof?

by eyeslice in

i found the following quote from w85 3/1 12-17: .

start quote.

12 these flashes of prophetic light prepared the ground for the historic discourse on ?the great multitude,?

TD

Besides being long-winded, the two articles were a study in circular reasoning and special pleading. There's probably nothing that would strike a critical observer today as "proof." For what it's worth though, I've quoted some of the material below:

The Watchtower and Herald of Christ?s Presence August 15, 1935, The Great Multitude Part 2

Paragraphs 15 & 16:

To ?come out of the great tribulation? (R.V.) not alone means to survive that trouble as ?flesh that shall be saved? (Matt. 24:22), but primarily means that the great multitude come out from Satan?s organization and take their stand on the side of Jehovah during the period of time that elapses from stopping the World War until the day of Armageddon, that is to say, during the time that the ?days should be shortened?, and during which time period this gospel of the kingdom is preached.

What is the purpose of shortening those days of tribulation? The Lord answers: ?for the elect?s sake those days shall be shortened.? During that period of time the elect have a work to do as witnesses for Jehovah and under his commandment, and at least a part of that work is the marking of the great multitude in their foreheads, as commanded by Jehovah. (Ezek. 9:4) that means that Jehovah?s witnesses must proclaim the message of truth and thus give an intellectual understanding of the truth to those of the great multitude class, which class ?flee into the mountains?, taking their place and stand in the city of refuge. (matt. 24:16; Num.; 35:6) This is ?immediately after the tribulation of those days? (Matt. 24:29), that is to say, the first part of the tribulation, from 1914 to 1918. The great multitude will also survive Armageddon, because God?s promise to those who seek meekness and righteousness is that they may be hid in that time. (Zeph. 2:3) All these scriptures negative (sic) the thought that the tribulation is for the purpose of developing or perfecting this class of God?s people. The great tribulation is the execution of Jehovah?s judgments against Satan?s organization, and is not for the purpose of developing anyone.

Paragraph 21 (partial)

Now we see a company that exactly fits the description given in Revelation seven concerning the great multitude. During the past few years, and within the time when ?this gospel of the kingdom is preached as a witness?, there have come forward great numbers (and they are still coming) who confess the Lord Jesus as their Savior and Jehovah as their god, whom they worship in spirit and in truth and joyfully serve. These are otherwise called ?the Jonadabs?. These are being baptized in symbol, thus testifying that they have consecrated themselves to do the will of God and have taken their stand on the side of Jehovah and serve him and his King; thus they have cleaned up and are now ?arrayed in white robes?. Thus the great multitude is definitely indentified, not as a spirit-begotten class whose hopes are for a place in heaven, but as a class trusting in the Lord, and who hope for everlasting life as a gift from Jehovah god through Christ Jesus our Lord. These continue to ?seek meekness and righteousness? and have the promise of Jehovah that they may be hid during the greatest part of the tribulation that is, at Armageddon. (Zeph. 2:3)

Paragraph 24:

Revelation 8:15 really is the key to the identification of the great multitude. In error we have heretofore taken a position that the great multitude is a spirit-begotten class, the members of which have been negligent of their privileges and decline to participate in the service of the Lord, and yet look forward to the or expect Jehovah to bless them by reason of their deathbed repentance. But this description is Revelation of the great multitude is that ?they are before the throne of god, and publicly serve him? (Diaglott); ?and are rendering divine service unto him.? (Rotherham) Heretofore they have, like others in the world, ignorantly ?worshipped and served the creature more that the Creator?. (Rom. 1:24) but now they see and understand and obey the words of Jesus, the Lamb of God, saying to them: ?Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve?; which words apply to all creature whom Jehovah approves. ?Matt 4:10

9

Question about Generation of 1914

by Gretchen956 in

could someone please send me the references that changed the thinking (new light, if you will) about those alive to recognize the significance of 1914 being alive to see armeggedon?

someone is asking me about this and i have been out too long.

gretchen

TD

Greetings H,

Actually I didn?t have Rutherford in mind nearly as much as those that came after him -- Knorr and Franz. When the Great Crowd doctrine was first introduced, the Witnesses believed that the Great Tribulation had already started with the first world war, but that those days had been ?cut short.? Consequently it was believed that those of the Great Multitude had already come out of the Great Tribulation.

When the Great Tribulation was subsequently relocated in Witness eschatology to a future event, it became necessary to explain exactly how the Great Crowd could have been identified ?before the fact? ? that is to say before the tribulation had actually occurred and anyone had survived it. And it was the ?old? understanding of the ?generation? that formed the basis for this explanation. In other words, those that stood up in 1935, were at least "prospective" members of the Great Crowd inasmuch as the end would occur within their lifetime and they therefore had the "prospect" of surviving it.

Even as recently as 1984, Witness literature was crystal clear on this point:

?Especially beginning in 1935, when the identity of the great multitude, or great crowd, was clearly understood, large numbers of these began to manifest themselves. Gods infallible Word depicts this group as coming out of the great tribulation, being survivors of it, living right on into Gods New Order without ever having to die. (Revelation 7:9, 10, 14; John 11:26) The early members of this group are now in their 60s or 70s or older. Jehovah did not allow the ingathering of this group to begin too soon. The great crowd, including many of the earliest members thereof, will survive into the new earth.? --Survival into a New Earth 1984 p.185

Therefore the ?old? understanding of the generation can?t be cast aside so easily. What they have done throws the shadow of doubt on one of the backbones of their unique theology ?the identification of the Great Crowd.

9

Question about Generation of 1914

by Gretchen956 in

could someone please send me the references that changed the thinking (new light, if you will) about those alive to recognize the significance of 1914 being alive to see armeggedon?

someone is asking me about this and i have been out too long.

gretchen

TD

I'm sure the Witness leaders and policy makers feel they have cleverly bought themselves some time. However the inconvenient fact remains that the Witness doctrine of the Great Crowd is irrevocably tied to the "old" understanding of a generation.

In the words of Revelation, the Great Crowd is composed of those individuals who "come out of" the Great Tribulation. Therefore those who are identified as prospective members of the Great Crowd must at least live to see that event, else there is no chance whatsoever that they will "come out of" it.

Therefore the concept of a generation as defined by its chronological limits is implicit in the doctrine of the Great Crowd. The Witnesses have no room to squirm on this issue. For them, the clock began ticking in 1935.

20

Capital Punishment and the WTS, yes or no?

by blondie in

what is the wts official stand on capital punishment?

http://www.wftv.com/news/2707605/detail.html

eugenio muriel, a jehovah's witnesses elder who found the bodies when he arrived at the house for bible study, said he was satisfied with the prosecutor's decision monday to seek the death penalty.

TD

I think while Eugenio Muriel may be very close to crossing the line, his statement is still acceptable within the framework of Witness theology. Refraining from debating an opinion is not quite the same thing as not having an opinion at all.

The Witness view of capital punishment is in one respect, similar to their view on blood. They believe that it actually predates the Law, having been enjoined by God upon all mankind as part of the Noachian covenant.

"As Lawgiver, Judge and Supreme Sovereign, Jehovah God can also delegate to others the authority to execute lawbreakers. After the flood of Noah?s day, for example, he authorized humans to administer capital punishment for deliberate murder. We read: "Anyone shedding man?s blood, by man will his own blood be shed, for in God?s image he made man." (Gen. 9:6) The human authority, by executing the murderer, would be acting as "God?s minister, an avenger to express wrath upon the one practicing what is bad."?Rom. 13:4." (The Watchtower, May 15, 1973 p. 302)

"Because of God?s view of the value of life, the blood of a murdered person is said to defile the earth, and such defilement can be cleansed only by shedding the blood of the murderer. On this basis the Bible authorizes capital punishment for murder, through duly constituted authority. (Nu 35:33; Ge 9:5, 6) In ancient Israel no ransom could be taken to deliver the deliberate murderer from the death penalty.?Nu 35:19-21, 31." (Insight on the Scriptures volume I p. 344)

Therefore it unavoidable that Witnesses would have an opinion on the subject. And while Muriel may be satisfied that someone else (In this case, the prosecutor) may frame an argument in accordance with that opinion, he has not joined in the debate himself. Technically he has not even directly expressed an opinion on the question of whether the State should actually follow through and exercise that right, he has only expressed his satisfaction that the argument will be made.

It may be a subtle difference, but it is the sort of technicality that the Witness organization thrives on.

95

Explain your Avatar

by simplesally in

jw
friends

obviously, mine is a picture of me.....it was taken at a hockey game at staples center: go kings!

.

odrade has a very pretty picture and i was wondering if that was her or a character from a movie?

TD

Not real original --- It's the penny farthing bicycle from The Prisoner