Well, that is the million dollar question. I ask that same question to anyone who tries to preach to me. The problem with religion is that sooner or later there comes a point when you are asked to believe in a man. Yes, all of them. All religion requires that you have faith in some other human that knows how to explain or traslate the dogma to you. You do not even know that the revered words written down are from God, you musdt believe that some other human wrote down what God wanted to say. Some faiths dont even hide it, you will outright worship other people. Men are wonderful at deception, even if they dont mean to.
Posts by tdogg
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16Being Deceived
by Dawn inwhat an interesting group here!
i have a question to toss out to those of you who were once active jw's that are now born again.. i was a "zealous" jw - raised as one and was an aux pioneer, etc.
my whole family is jw's (elders, etc.).
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8
Okay so a real suicide story...
by tdogg inthere has been a lot of talk about jw suicides here after the oregon thing.
well here is a real story from last year about a family member of mine.. my aunt was a missionary for as long as i can remember.
she and my uncle left to serve abroad when i was young.
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tdogg
There has been a lot of talk about Jw suicides here after the Oregon thing. Well here is a real story from last year about a family member of mine.
My aunt was a missionary for as long as I can remember. She and my uncle left to serve abroad when I was young. They served for many years then came back to be travelling overseers for the Spanish speaking congregations.
They were the real deal. They had nothing. One could honestly say they were truly devoted to Jehovah (and/or the WTS). During the time my mother was DF'd, then reinstated, then did a quick fade. I left a few years later.
We were of course outcast with only occasional attemps to bring us back in. We would get word that my aunt was battling some illness but that her faith was still strong. Details were scarce. Little did we know that she was also battling depression. For how long I dont know, but I am sure her treatment for many years was only scriptures, prayer, and more Watchtower.
The last time I saw my aunt was at my grandmothers funeral. The family all assembled at a neutral location and we did actually talk to each other. My aunt hugged me and began to cry. There was this strange look in her eye, something you notice but dont understand at that exact moment...Well if only we could have takled to her, away from the other witnesses. Could we have just talked, to find out what was going on, with no critisism or judgement, no tracts or helpful WT articles to point out, no bullshit, I wonder.
So not long after that I was called by my stepfather to advise me that my mothers sister had committed suicide.
So we are at the funeral. I was wondering about the method of her demise because I was not told and did nodt really want to ask. I needed to know and I found out.
She had gotten away from my Jw relatives whom She and my uncle lived with, taken a car up a nearby canyon, doused herself with gasoline and...well lets just say one must be in a lot pain to choose that way to go out.
Needless to say I was stunned. No matter what method one chooses to kill oneself the end result is the same but this was horrible. What could drive someone to it? There are many unanswered questions. This was the wife a prominent brother here. The thing was very sudden and the funeral talk was mostly about her battle with lupus and then the usual attempt to use the opportunity to preach to the audience. I spent most of the time outside with my 1 year old.
I did not write this for sympathy for myself so send no regets. I was sad more for my mother than myself. It is over and done. That page was written. The only thing left to do is learn from this. If this can happen to such a prominent one who had served God her entire life then what exactly does that mean?
May you rest in peace Christina.
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Memorial No Shows...Please Check in....
by ISP inwell, i was tempted but i decided not to go to the most bizarre religious ritual of modern times....how about you?.
isp
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tdogg
I didnt even get my invite this year.......sniff...I guess they are really shunning me now...sniff...no hope for me etc..etc....the horror!!!!
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3/24 - A Special Day
by Amazing insunday, the 24th, will be my mother's birthday.
had she lived, she would have been 95. she was 44 when i was born.
she died in july 1966, when i was 15. she would have turned over in her grave had she known that i had ever been a jw.. her first contact with the jws was when i was still in the womb.
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tdogg
She wont be 'pissed about your JW life'. You said she made mistakes but 'she was human' and so are you. Its not easy to break away from the dubs so give yourself some credit, it bet your mom does.
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My wifes affair of over 20 years with local elder!
by ukexjw ini would like to take this opportunity to give a brief account of the events that i have had to under go over the last 5 weeks.
i have been a jehovahs witness for 38 years and all of my close family are currently active jws.
i got married to my wife in march 1999, she was a baptized witness and had been for over 30 years.
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tdogg
Welcome, and my sympathies. The details differ, but the end result is the same in everyones story. They will try to punish you and silence you. How are you going to respond? Right now you are hurt and angry and you want to strike back by suing. You have a lot of unlearning and healing to do and a huge fight with a bunch of nobody elders will do nothing but cause more pain and anger. Although watching them lie and spin the truth in court might be amusing...
The 'Joshua Defense'? Brillient! If that doesnt work you could try the 'Chewbacca defense', but you would need to hire Johnny Cochran to pull it off.
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Need help looking for Article!!!!!!!!!!!!
by JT ini left my cdrom at work and i need to find the article-.
"are you an open minded person".
something to that affect.
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tdogg
Oh man I forget how funny that 'open mind' stuff is. I used to eat it up. When that little voice in my head would ask "..but how come you can't be open minded about other...". "SHHHHHH" I would reply, "Im reading the Watchtower, GODS WORD!"
"But.."
"I said BE QUIET, once you've found the truth you don't need to be open-minded anymore."
"Okay boss." -
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Advice Needed on Memorial Invite!!
by dins intoday, while on the phone with my jw mother, she drops the, by the way do you want to come to the memorial thing for the first time in i don't know how many years.
i was kind of taken aback and said that i would think about it.
obviously, i have no intention of going, but should i just say nothing, say no, or just say i don't agree with the jw doctrine at all and to attend would be hypocritical of me?
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tdogg
Tough call because the answer you give may permantly affect your relationship with mom. The safe bet is to duck and dodge like MR MOE suggested. If you are really fed up and need to let her know how you feel about the org. then go for it but be prepared to accept the consequences.
If she is giving your old books away that may be a sign that you are close to being given up on. If there is no hope for you then they will try to 'save' your son so he wont be killed even if you are nothing but bird food at the big "A".
P.S. Memorial time already? I havent got my official yearly visit yet, mabey they've given up on me!
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BRYANT FAMILY MURDER/SUICIDE
by QUEENIE inthey were 4th generation jws---this is the most horrific thing i have ever heard of..words can not express totally how i feel about the whole thing--i am in the process of sorting my very apostate feelings out right now....peace ((((healing hugs))))
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tdogg
2001: My JW missionary aunt douses herself with gasoline and commits suicide by flame in a canyon just out of Salt Lake City.
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SLC Humorist RE: Stratton
by tdogg ingreat quote today:"meanwhile, the witnesses are reported as saying that they are eternally grateful for the support from a group of people going straight to hell just as soon as the lord comes back.
whole article below.
"kirby: court should keep mission work interesting.
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tdogg
Great quote today:"Meanwhile, the Witnesses are reported as saying that they are eternally grateful for the support from a group of people going straight to Hell just as soon as the Lord comes back. So I may have heard."
Whole article below
"KIRBY: Court Should Keep Mission Work Interesting
Saturday, March 9, 2002
BY ROBERT KIRBYIf Stratton, Ohio, has its way, missionaries will soon have to get a permit before they can knock on doors in that town.
The Jehovah's Witnesses have sued to block the Stratton city ordinance, which would essentially make it inconvenient if not impossible for missionaries to spread the word door to door.
Right now, the U.S. Supreme Court is trying to muddle it out. If the justices decide in favor of the city, it could spell the end of missionary work as many Utahns know it.
Maybe that's why the LDS Church filed a brief in support of the Witnesses, claiming that as misguided about the Bible as they are, the Witnesses are truly inspired about this doorbell thing.
Meanwhile, the Witnesses are reported as saying that they are eternally grateful for the support from a group of people going straight to Hell just as soon as the Lord comes back. So I may have heard. Frankly, it's just nice to see the faiths playing well together for a change.
Anyway, the Supreme Court is trying to decide this porch hopping issue -- something an LDS Church spokesman referred to as "door-to-door evangelism."
When I did it years ago, we called it "tracting," "first contacting," "knocking doors," and/or "molestaring people," molestar being the Spanish verb for "to bother."
Knocking doors was one of my least favorite parts of missionary work. I hate being bothered at home myself and didn't enjoy doing it to other people. But I did it. (Please do not send me letters about how you or a loved one would never have joined the church if the missionaries hadn't been inspired to hammer on your door at an inconvenient time.)
Give God a little more credit. If he really wanted you, he would have got you in another even less convenient way. Or did you forget about Jonah already?
Also, I didn't say knocking on doors was wrong, only that I didn't like doing it. Even so, I would be sad to see it stop. Porch hopping is a great learning experience for young missionaries.
When I did it, there weren't any city ordinances in our way. We pounded doors even in the rain. We still pounded doors when we got pneumonia, especially if my companion wanted to be a zone leader.
I don't remember ever seeing a "no soliciting" sign. Whether or not to knock was determined almost entirely by other more pointed things. Mainly fangs. Apparently, when the Lord didn't want us to convert someone, he would inspire them to keep a mean dog. I have never seen such a story in the Ensign, but it's certainly possible.
Having doors slammed in your face is a good way to toughen the ego, as well as to learn never to carelessly place your hand inside the door jam when you are bothering people.
Once, a woman slammed my tie in the door. She wouldn't open up again, so I had to wiggle out of it and leave it hanging there. I wonder what her husband thought when he came home.
My companions and I encountered guns, drunks, nudes, voodoo, communists and spit. We had water poured on us, dogs sicced on us, and girls come on to us. Occasionally, we also found someone who wanted to talk to us bad enough to make it all worthwhile, except maybe for the time my companion killed somebody's chicken.
I hope the Supreme Court is inspired. My mission would have been a lot more boring without knocking on doors. -
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tdogg
"The free one-on-one exchange of ideas is a pillar of our democracy," says Paul Polidoro, a lawyer for the Jehovah's Witnesses, in his brief to the court. "Stratton has devalued both the constitutional right of speakers to express information and the constitutional right of residents to receive it if they so choose."
Wow! Look at Jehovahs spokesman using the rights of "our democracy" and using the constitution as if it were some sacred document. Too bad they dont bring up what the WT really thinks about the government of the United States and its constitution. How convieniently they can change their song when it suits them....